I don’t know if anyone else saw this in the last IDM blog post by Dr. Jason Fung. This is the statement:
“… If you eat excessive protein, the body has no way to store these extra amino acids. Instead, these are changed into glucose by the liver.An estimated 50-70% of the protein ingested is turned into glucose in an average North American person”
The link for the statement goes here:
So “half to 3/4 of the protein I eat gets converted into sugar”
All I can see is the abstract, so I cant see the actual study results that say that. The study abstract says that higher protein results in lower blood glucose levels after meals, but the way I interpret that is that it takes a while for the body to turn the protein into sugar, the same as for starch being converted into sugar, so that would delay and spread out the sugar load over hours instead of spiking immediately.
It also suggests average americans are eating 2-3 times more protein than they need as well as all the carbs.
I guess for a high protein diet to be considered a high sugar diet you would need to know the conversion - how much sugar do you get when you have that triple cheeseburger with bacon and convert the excess protein to sugar? I don’t know.
This mirrors my own experience - if I eat too much meat (like I did on Atkins) and not enough fat and green veggies my weight loss will plateau. The more fat, the more I lose, and the more my blood work gets better (140/90 bp down to 90/68!)
I’m going to go hide under a table for a while while you guys discuss and/or refute this.
I’m a T2D, and when I eat too much protein, my sugar goes too high and takes a long time to come back down, to the point where it can cause high morning glucose levels when eaten the night before, and not even that late. I am willing to bet that there are some people who do not have the same level of insulin resistance who may not find this to be true, but I do, for sure.
Depends on what “higher” actually means and how much we are talking about eating?
More than 3 or 4 oz. (depending on person) of protein will probably result in gluconeogenesis conversion to glucose/sugar possibly the next day? If you are fasting or hypoglycemic and eat a small amount of protein the conversion process will probably be immediate (in the form of the metabolic hormone glucagon) rather than delayed?
I think it is important to point out that the study was done with type 2 diabetics, because that is Fung’s area of interest.
So I’d be wary of assuming that gluconeogenesis will happen to a similar extent with non type 2s.
I am v well aware that my blood glucose reaction with mod-high protein is very different from others - depending on the extent of their ‘normality’ and my dysregulation.
Obesity and Type 2 Diabetes Impair Insulin-Induced Suppression of Glycogenolysis as Well as Gluconeogenesis “…We concluded that defects in the regulation of glycogenolysis as well as gluconeogenesis cause hepatic insulin resistance in obese nondiabetic and type 2 diabetic humans. Type 2 diabetes is characterized by both fasting and postprandial hyperglycemia. …” …”Glucagon stimulates both glycogenolysis and gluconeogenesis (31). Glucagon concentrations were higher in the diabetic subjects than in the lean nondiabetic subjects but did not differ from those present in the obese nondiabetic subjects. In addition, glucagon concentrations fell in all three groups during the clamp. Therefore, although elevated fasting glucagon concentrations could exacerbate an underlying defect in the regulation of the gluconeogenic and glycogenolytic pathways, hyperglucagonemia is unlikely to be the sole cause of the increased rates of glycogenolysis and gluconeogenesis observed in the diabetic subjects. Regardless of the etiology of these abnormalities, the observations that insulin-induced suppression of glycogenolysis and gluconeogenesis was impaired in the obese nondiabetic subjects relative to in the lean nondiabetic subjects and that obesity commonly precedes diabetes add further support to the premise that hepatic insulin resistance occurs early in the evolution of type 2 diabetes. …”
l did not observe that my bg goes up signicantly with very hi protin intake.
with restricted protin I get 100 bg
with high protin intake I get 120 to 130 max
I do not know how bad my insulin resistance is based on this avarage bg with and without hi protin intake but I feel it maybe a good method of figuring out insulin resistance level.
for instance divide the avarage of 3 readings of bg while on hi protin intake by the avarage of 3 readings while on hi fat intake to get insulin resistance factor.
From the link provided by @brownfat above
We get a study of 12 people 10 men 2 women
The control diet was
55% carbs
15% protein
30% fat
The “High protein” diet was
40% carbs
30% protein
30% fat
No-one here (I imagine) eats anything like either of those 2 diets so in my humble view I don’t give a shit about the results because they don’t apply to me or anyone following a ketogenic way of eating.
Carb based diets are likely very different in this regard than relatively carb-less diets that most people on here follow.
Also don’t forget that while Dr Fung is not opposed to low-carb diets, his primary tool is fasting, with or without carb restriction. He specifically talks about how many of his patients did not seem to comprehend macros very well, so he just tells them to not eat anything, which they tend to understand.
Context is everything as explored in Dr Benjamin Bikman’s presentation on the insulin/glucagon balance and the difference observed in insulin response, depending on how much glucose (carbs) was present.
That blood pressure drop is incredible! I have read in other places as well, that fat is the key to weight loss. Just curious, when you say you eat more veggies weight loss gets better. Is it due to the veggies or are you saying you are replacing extra protein with the veggies?
Absolutely agree 100% I’m a Fung fan and fast fairly regularly but still can’t apply this study to anything that I have experienced. I overeat my protein macros almost every day without any ill effects… so far anyways.
I am also T2 diabetic and struggling to bring down my levels even following Keto. I guess I am a ‘lazy’ keto follower in that I do not check my macros. I suspect , like you, that I may be eating too much protein , hence the lack of drop in BS levels.
I am at the end of week 7 of following this WOE. I fully intend to track macros from next week - have been playing around with a tracker to understand how it works so hope to be up and running with tracking macros from Monday.
I have been in ketosis since week one - levels ranging from 0.5 to 4.5. Not losing weight at all, although only gave 7lbs to lose - or thereabouts. BS levels down quite a lot from when I started but still too high at the moment.
Just love my coffee and HWC though - have a feeling this may have to go (or drink less of it)
I think in this year’s low carb Breckenridge 2018 Ben Bikman did a talk on this. His work suggested high protein with high carb was a bad idea high protein on low carb had little impact and high protein on no carb reduced… I can’t remember if the thing being measured was glucose or insulin though.
