High LDL cholesterol on carnivore?

(Michael) #61

As mentioned before, I am not ready to comment a lot except to repeat that I did not agree with the response, but it is still worth considering.

Briefly, pufa can also be found in many whole foods, including nuts and fish, not just seed oils. PUFA do lower cholesterol compared to SFA as your original link tries to justify with their theory. I also feel it is physiological and not detrimental at the moment. The response certainly follows the standard of care approach, which most on these forums do not accept as justified. PUFA can be oxidized much more easily that SFA, so while cholesterol may be lower, I am as of now, unconvinced that it translates to lower CVD risk and seems like an equal trade off to me. Having said this, I am going to read more and I am open to my current thoughts being incorrect if the evidence does in fact justify reconsideration.

#62

Hi Michael, I don’t disagree with you, I too think it warrants more research. I was eating a lot of PUFAs back on my high carb diet, I never actually consumed vegetable and seed oils. I ate a lot of nuts and sunflower seeds, fish. I do feel I need to up my fish and seafood intake now that I am carnivore. Currently, also because of my mom’s discovery of the calcification of the arteries in her heart, and her concern about me consuming so many saturated fats, I am feeling conflicted. It’s much a matter as gaz3 wrote, of risk/reward. Currently I don’t feel there is enough evidence for me to quit the carnivore WOE, however, I will keep assessing that, and how my body feels. And further down the road, I will get a lipid profile done as well. My doctor was supportive of me starting keto. Whether she would be equally as supportive about a carnivore WOE I’m not sure. It’s early days but judging from how my body feels, I still think it’s the right way forward.

#63

So, here’s a thought experiment: if you were to have proof that reverting back to your old diet would extend your life by 1% would you revert? How about 50%? Or 100%?

At what point would you feel living with all your old problems was worth it for the extra days/months or possibly years of life?

With the current level of knowledge there is regarding the long term effects of a carnivore/keto WOE vs a standard “healthy” WOE such as your previous one, which end of the 0-100 scale would you place the likely worst case longevity impairments? For me I think it is firmly at the zero end and even if there is a small negative impact on my lifespan (I think/hope that it is actually the opposite) I will happily swap that for living with a slightly shorter but improved healthspan .

#64

Hi gaz3, that’s the same thought experiment I’ve lately been thinking about regarding my Tamoxifen. It supposedly gives me 50% better chance of survival (aka no reoccurrence) and so I’ve been taking it religiously for two years now, the very thought of stopping it at first too frightening to even remotely consider. But I’ve since thought more about it, and about quality of life. Because carnivore for me allows me a life free of pain, aches, water retention (so not good for lipoedema) and above all inflammation, I have the hope that in another three years, I could quit taking Tamoxifen, to further improve the quality of my life. As there has been some recent research showing how chronic inflammation could lead to cancer. As to the slightly longer lifespan versus quality of life, I would take the improved healthspan any given day, but it would be a different matter if say, raised cholesterol, was proven to both significantly and rapidly lead to deterioration of one’s health. As of yet, there seems not to be a link proven between raised cholesterol and CVD, so here is where more research is warranted.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #65

This is true. The cholesterol-lowering effect of PUFA’s is well-documented. The real question is whether that is a good or a bad thing. And that depends on whether LDL causes cardiovascular disease or not.

The trouble with the industrial seed oils is that, as Dr. Phinney points out, PUFA’s, especially the ω-6, are inflammatory in quantity. Also, many of the PUFA’s in seed oils are new to the body, evolutionarily speaking, so they act in unpredictable and often deleterious ways.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #66

Those are the ones that that body is familiar with and evolved to handle. The concern with the industrial seed oils is the many compounds they contain for which that is not the case.

#67

Yes I agree Paul, this is where more research is warranted, with regards to the actual threat of raised LDL cholesterol and whether it actually raises the risk if CVD significantly. Also whether there is an actual link between a high intake of saturated fats and heart disease. I am feeling great on my carnivore WOE, as my body feels rewarded everytime I give it cream, eggs, cheese or fatty meat. But the amount of negative views regarding carnivore is both staggering and at times feel disheartening. And when my own mom voices her own strong concerns, it leaves me feeling conflicted. However, my body is feeling good, the absence of inflammation is still there, improving my quality of life so unless I am met with some absolute evidence carnivore will lead to heart problems, I’ll continue eating this way.

(Edith) #68

@robintemplin, I remember you mentioning having some long Covid symptoms. Could the inflammation be a result of the long Covid?

(Robin) #69

Yes, absolutely!
If we come up with no other explanation, that will probably be suspect number one.

(Robin) #70

The overriding conclusion I have in regards to my health… I have to believe that weighing 75 pounds less and the relief it gives my joints, (and the myriad of other benefits) is as important as lipid numbers