High LDL Cholesterol after 6 months on Keto

cholesterol
keto
ldl
endurance
(Pavel) #1

Hi Everyone!

I’m in UK, I’ve recently done a blood test, and my GP got freaked out by my LDL numbers. She said they see such high scores probably once a year.

Cholesterol: 11.6 mmol/l (norm <5.0)
Triglycerides: 0.78 mmol/l (norm <1.7)
HDL: 2.0 mmol/l (norm 0.9-1.5)
LDL (calc): 9.3 mmol/l (norm <3.0)

I haven’t done the test straight before keto, but as I remember my numbers never worried anyone before.

I’ve been researching this topic. I learned that not all LDL is bad. The whole theory might be completely wrong, unfortunately the healthcare thinks differently.

I also discovered cholesterolcode and some vids by Dave Feldman. In his terms I seem to be a hyper-responder. I do endurance sports on a regular basis (off-road mountain bike). I’m relatively slim - 17%(8% athlete mode) body fat (73kg 178cm). As I understood, that’s actually a typical response for such individuals. Correct me if I’m wrong. I want to have an educated answer for the likes of my GP. LDL’s main purpose is to distribute fat soluble substances, in my case trigs - primary fuel for the body on very low carb diet. It’s food delivery. Cholesterol is there, but it’s not being used. High LDL numbers mean that my body is in mobilized state due to exercises - it makes more energy available - more LDL to deliver more trigs.

I wanted to do the LDL-p (particle density) test, but I can’t find where they do it in UK. Any suggestions? My GP is pretty blunt on this topic and suggests taking statins. She also directed me to the local lipid clinic.

Other than those worries, I feel insanely great )

(Siobhan) #2

Well… you seem to have answered most of your questions haha. Yes I believe @daveketo has demonstrated day to day LDL levels have a lot to do with energy distribution. So if you are relying on fat as a fuel, and dont have a lot of body fat (local supplier of fat energy) you need to get energy from somewhere. Some from ketones sure, but most from triglycerides (carried by LDL)
The particle count may be useful but iirc lmhr can also have high counts but they fluctuate properly during exercise etc.

LDL is just a very noisy marker in general. It fluctuates for many reasons, like infection, or a source of inflammation, or exercise, or energy status, or long term illness, etc it makes it hard to tell if it’s high (or low!) for a good or bad reason.
In fact there was one study where they took blood draws of people who came in with heart events and the bulk of them had LDL… under 100! At the recommended range!
The AHA also put something out recently that said that LDL doesn’t correlate to risk but high triglycerides do (high triglycerides also track with insulin resistance go figure).

So the view does appear to slowly be changing. Since you’ve scoped out Dave you might have already seen it but I wrote a piece on cholesteorol code regarding heart disease… plaque.2keto.com
It certainly is no shiny medical journal piece but I do cite all my claims and it may give you a different perspective that may help you be better prepared going in to the doctor next time.
Check out Ivor Cummins stuff as well, and maybe get your fasting insulin done! Theres a good correlative marker!

As for statins… the best thing I can say is do your research on them. Both the benefits (1% reduction in absolute risk, may be beneficial after first event) and risks (side effects, etc) and then decide for yourself if you want to. Your doctor can suggest you do things but ultimately your health is your decision alone.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #3

Your triglyceride to HDL ratio is extremely good. It should be under 0.9 when measured in millimoles, and yours is 0.39. If you were to have your LDL particle densities checked, I’d bet it would turn out that most of your LDL is the large, fluffy variety and therefore nothing to worry about. Next time you get your numbers checked, do Dave Feldman’s protocol for bringing the numbers down, and you’ll be able to get your doctor off your back. In the meantime, see if she’ll postpone prescribing the statin for a bit, and give you a chance to bring your cholesterol “under control” with diet.

It’s not great that we have to lie to our doctors, but this is how the system works right now. Is there any chance you might be able to educate her? Might she read Why We Get Fat or Big Surprise?

ETA: That should be Big Fat Surprise

(Dave) #4

Pavel, you made my day — maybe even my month.

You describe almost exactly what I’m trying to communicate as the 101 to this whole thing. Until one understands how fat is mobilized in lipoproteins (especially on low carb), one can’t really get the most relevant factor to serum cholesterol — since, you know, they are travel companions!

One more addition to your reading if you haven’t visited it already: http://cholesterolcode.com/are-you-a-lean-mass-hyper-responder/

(Jack Brien) #5

I’m in exactly the same position. I mentioned LDL-P to my GP and she said no, she’s never heard of it, but I should take statins for the rest of my life. Going to do the hack and see how she reacts to that.

(Pavel) #6

Amazing! Thank you so much for all your responses, they are very very helpful and reassuring.

#7

Hello, I’m about 3.5 months on keto and my numbers turned this way before/after:
Total cholesterol: 240/515
HDL: 73/104
LDL: 151/396
TG: 77/76
I’m 35 and in rather a good shape (50k bike rides 1-2 times a week, some at home excercises - so no athlete) 176cm high and 73kg 17% fat. I feel just great however I am a bit concerned about the LDL spike this high.
Seems my problem is simmilar Your was/is? Any update how is it now?

(Cancer Fighting Ketovore :)) #8

I wouldn’t stress on your numbers just yet.
I’d get them tested in another 3 months or so, just to compare (to current). Its said that it can take at least 6 months for numbers to settle on keto. You might be testing too soon into this way of eating, so maybe retest in 3 months?

Besides, your trig to HDL ratio is good: 76/104 = 0.73

–===== CholesterolCode.com/Report v0.9.5.15 =====–
• Male • • Coffee: •
• <Unspecified time and/or diet> •
• • Cholesterol Rx: false •

Total Cholesterol: 515 mg/dL 13.32 mmol/L
LDL Cholesterol: 396 mg/dL 10.24mmol/L
HDL Cholesterol: 76 mg/dL 1.97mmol/L
TG Cholesterol: 104 mg/dL 1.17mmol/L

---------RISK REPORT---------
Atherogenic Index of Plasma: -0.226 mg/dL >>> Lowest Risk Third
----> Go to https://tinyurl.com/ycccmmnx for more on AIP

Framingham Offspring: 0.9 Odds Ratio >>> Medium-Low Risk
----> Go to https://tinyurl.com/y5fc5adl for more on this Framingham study

Jeppesen: >>> Medium Risk Third
----> Go to https://tinyurl.com/y63xp7lj for more on the Jeppesen study

Cholesterol Remnants: 43 mg/dL >>> 0.23 mmol/L >>> Medium-Low Risk
----> Go to https://tinyurl.com/y84u92wm for more on Cholesterol Remnants

------CONVENTIONAL MARKERS AND RATIOS------
Friedewald LDL-C: 418 | Iranian LDL-C: 380
TC/HDL Ratio in mg/dL: 6.78
TG/HDL Ratio in mg/dL: 1.37 | TG/HDL Ratio in mmol/L: 0.59

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #9

Wow! Your triglyceride/HDL is under 1.0! Amazing! Your LDL is virtually guaranteed to be all Pattern A, which is the lowest risk for cardiovascular disease.

Let me guess: you are lean and athletic, right? And I’ll further guess that your HbA1C is very low. If so, then you are one of Dave Feldman’s lean-mass hyperresponders, and you will be able to use his protocol to manipulate your lipid numbers by eating to the correct pattern. Check it out at

#10

Thank You both for Your responses.
I am as I wrote 17% body fat, I’ve never had any blood sugar related issues thus not HbA1c done so far. My fasting sugar varies between 80-90 md/dl or 4,4-5 mmol/L. Ketones level after 20-24 hour fast varies 1.1-3 mmol/L. The longest fast periods that happens to me being on are just to 40-45h. Mostly 20-24.
Even though I can be a hyperresponder we still do not know if this state is healthy/safe.
I’ve already got a bit scared and tuned my dietary fats to level lower (was easting them like there was no tommorow :slight_smile: ) keeping my carbs at about 20-50g/day.

Do You know if LMHRs are able to regulate the levels of LDL with time?

I mean at least to a certain point. Still this 396 of LDL in my numbers scares me… it’s like over 260% growth :open_mouth:

#11

Hi, Paul. Have you ever done Dave Feldman’s protocol, or known someone who did it? I’m curious. I just did blood work for life insurance and my LDL was 225. My cholesterol is 291. Besides those two stats, everything was perfect. However, I know this is going to ding me for the insurance. Furthermore, I know that if, the next time I get a blood draw (which they want to do soon) my Dr. is going to want to put me on statins, which I won’t do. I haven’t had a blood draw in nearly a year at the Dr. and have been doing strict KETO since last June. I’ve lost 45 pounds and feel great. I would be interested in trying Feldman’s protocol before getting a blood draw at the Dr, so looking for some real world experience. Thanks!

(Bob M) #12

Here’s a thread on it.

https://www.ketogenicforums.com/t/the-feldman-protocol-thread/7789

My version is here:

https://www.ketogenicforums.com/t/the-feldman-protocol-thread/7789/74?u=ctviggen

If your doctor thinks “good” LDL is 100, you probably can’t get there unless you did this:

image

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #13

@EquiPro I recently read Dave Feldman claiming something like 23 (if I remember correctly) folks have completed the protocol. So, Dave would be the person to ask for examples.

Intro

This page is neither medical advice, nor is it a guarantee – but as of this writing, it has been used successfully by myself and now about a half dozen others [UPDATE 3/1/17] twenty three [UPDATE 8/22/17] over fifty [Update 1/15/19] somewhere north of 300 (lost count) who have tried it as well.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #14

I don’t pay attention to cholesterol, actually. I don’t find the evidence that cholesterol causes heart disease to be convincing (some of it was actually fraudulent), and there is a great deal of evidence I do find convincing to show it doesn’t cause heart disease.

Most of the so-called “evidence” saying that meat and fat are bad comes from vegan or vegetarian sources with an agenda. They are backed by the Seventh-Day Adventist Church, which believes that eating meat makes people lustful and prone to masturbate. Even if they are right, I don’t have a problem with that. :grin: According to my religion, God made the world and declared it good. Ellen White and John Harvey Kellogg have done a great deal of harm with their crazy ideas.

(Gregory - You can teach an old dog new tricks.) #15

Heart disease is on the rise along with prescriptions for statins…

There’s a clue there somewhere…

(Bob M) #16

In my opinion, Malcolm Kendrick’s 50+ series about what causes heart disease is spot-on. It’s the only thing that makes sense.

Also, to me, the people who believe in the lipid hypothesis are not scientific. If E=mC^2 fails once, it fails. But there is a ton of (epi) data indicating that “high” LDL may actually be good for you. And people with very high LDL but a zero score on a CAC scan. While I realize the CAC scan has limits, if LDL causes “atherosclerosis”, why does someone with high LDL have no ostensible atherosclerosis?

A true scientist would question his or her beliefs based on these examples. But they don’t.

#17

I don’t really care about my cholesterol (I mean, I trust my body does its job well if I eat what works for me considering how I feel) but it’s nice to know things.

What is the “fat in the blood” that matters for blood plasma donation and the previous ~24 hours matter much? What is that?
I probably will ask questions from the blood plasma donor center, they will have all those nice results I have no idea about! I don’t even know my blood type and I’d like to know. They always tell the protein part, that must be high enough, no problem for me but the fat shouldn’t be too high (but it doesn’t mean I need to eat exactly low-fat. 70-80g should do, challenging but possible).

I am pretty much it’s due to being born as a specimen of homo sapiens and not being asexual at the same time but whatever.
But I was a vegetarian for long (even without eggs for 1-2 years) and tried carnivore a bit and many ways of eating in between and never noticed a correlation. And as you, my views about these things don’t align with the opinion of that church, whatever they are, I can imagine.