Help needed with Ketones/Superstarch-cycling event

newbies
science
(Joel ) #1

I have been on a keto diet since April and have lost 30 lbs so far. I am riding in the Death Ride on Saturday and was wondering if anyone has used Perfect Keto/Superstarch for any of their events. This is a 9+ hour event and not a race. If you have, what type of mixture did you use? How did you tolerate it? Did you supplement with food etc? I have been using Ucan Superstarch for the last few months and have done well with it but just invested in Perfect Keto as a supplement. Thx!

(less is more, more or less) #2

I don’t know how death rides and half-marathons compare, energy-wise, but I ran my first half-marathon last November, with a shot of saline before the run. That’s it. No “superstarch” whatever that is. (I did look it up, I remain skeptical.)

(Ken) #3

It looks like it’s the Waxey Maize hucksters marketed to Bodybuilders nearly 20 years ago. They used the same claptrap term of “higher molecular weight” as being some type of a huge positive. All that means is it’s a complex Carb, like all starches are. They take a little longer to digest is all. Basically an innovative way to market cornstarch to people. If you want to eat that, just go buy your own.

If you choose to go that route, just Carb load the two days prior, going for complete glycogen recompensation before the race.

(Allie) #4

I know Danny Vega has used it and was extremely impressed -

I can’t find the exact podcast episode but know it exists as I listened to it.

(Ken) #5

Well, that doesn’t mean that it’s Magic, it only supports that periodic and limited Carb intake for athletes is very beneficial. As it is for virtually everyone, contrary to much of Nutty Keto Dogma. You can get the same benefit from virtually any Carb source. It’s not like this is anything new, it’s been known for decades.

(Joel ) #6

Perhaps I phrased my question the wrong way. I’m not skeptical on Superstarch in any way. I have used the product over the last 3 months with great success. Beforehand I would eat 300-440 cal of carbs before the ride and “eat” on the bike roughly 60-90g of carbs/hr through food and drink. I also supplemented with various electrolyte concoctions. Being in a ketosis state and combining with Superstarch has made a huge impact in my performance. I will remain using this product as well as looking into creating my own.

From my research it appears that adding a ketone supplement to increase the amount available for energy and combining it with a slow releasing carb would allow my body to remain in ketosis throughout the entire ride while allowing the muscles to utilize carbs during any anaerobic climbing that may be needed (14-18% sections). What I am curious about is if anyone has tried this, what amount did they supplement with and what were their results.

#7

I am fat adapted but I live in a hilly area and I am a big guy. I go anaerobic a lot on my rides. On days of my riding I have 2 tablespoons of light Karo syrup ( dextrose) in a cup of coffee before my ride and I use 1 scoop of Superstarch in my water bottle. The superstarch does not create an insulin response and I always stay in ketosis. The carbs are burned almost immediately from cycling. For more information on Superstarch search Peter Attia. Also the second book by Phinney and Volek (Low Carb Performance goes over the use of Superstarch

(Ken) #8

This thread is beginning to illustrate the problem with the misnomer “Keto” and all the Dogma being attached to it. The issue is Lipolysis, of which ketone secretions are only a part. It is not a magical standalone event to have circulating ketones, ketone secretions are glucagon dependant, and require low levels of glycogen.

When you eat carbs like starch, glucagon secretions halt and insulin secretions begin. Lipolysis is suspended, no matter how many ketones you consume. It’s nutty to me that some marketer is somehow saying that their magical starch product somehow supports ketosis, and therefore inferring it supports lipolysis. It’s a back door attempt to get keto dogma disciples to eat carbs (which is beneficial) without a direct challenge to the Dogma. Brilliant marketing, but it preys on the fanatical and uninformed, and gets them to buy an absurdly expensive and unnecessary product.

It’s common to have circulating ketones after you begin eating carbs. Anyone who’s done CKD knows it, they can be detected for up to a day during glycogen recompensation. It doesn’t mean you’re still lipolytic. I haven’t read P and V’s book, so it’s entirely possibly I’m in disagreement with them, not unusual, I’m skeptical of all gurus.

Don’t get the idea that I’m saying that this product wouldn’t work, or is not a good idea. My point is that you can get the same benefits from other carbs, it’s nothing special.

(Ken) #9

What you’re doing is a form of TKD. Nothing magical, but is a really good idea. Dextrose would work as well.

(less is more, more or less) #10

I just listened to their latest podcast on this morning’s run. Ironically, he’s pushing carnivore, and has been for some time, so make of that what you will.

(Ken) #11

I’ve just received a friendly note pointing out that my tone appears overly strident. Such was not my intent. This Super starch/Waxey Maize was debunked long ago. There is always a constant debunking going on in regard to nutritional products and their actual benefits, coinciding with pseudo scientific explanations of how they work.

(Allie) #12

Yeah I know he is now, but he wasn’t when he used the Ucan super starch and at that time he was very enthusiastic about it. We all make changes and progress in different ways.

(Joel ) #13

Here’s my update:

The combination of Perfect Keto and Superstarch in a 1:2 ratio allowed me to complete the Death Ride (107 miles, 15K climbing-5 mountain peaks, 10.5 hours riding time). I ate a Keto breakfast of eggs/sausage/keto coffee and drank 2 servings of Superstarch before the ride. This combination proved to be an incredible concoction for me. Not once during the ride did I cramp or feel like I didn’t have any energy. I used Nuun tablets for electrolytes in my H2O bottles. I can’t count the number of riders I saw downing carbs in max and cramping at the rest stops. I’m going to continue to experiment with these mixtures but I couldn’t be happier with my results. Thanks for the feedback.