Help me defend these lab results

(Ron) #121

Well said!:+1::wink:

(Diane) #122

Amen!

(LUIS) #123

it is interesting how people can quickly get defensive. When did i ever said you need to eat greens to get nutrients? you are talking about another totally different topic. I am referring to the cholesterol being carried to the liver. you are referring to nutrients. Then you use other animals as an example to mention no-one counts calories… except animals are not worried about how fat they look and therefore the comparison is extremely vague. It’s people like you that like to breakdown someone’s opinion and comments and pick it apart that I stay away from helping those in need. Keep eating high fats and don’t eat any greens. check ur liver in 5 years then come back and read again

(Diane) #124

I respect your right to your opinion. When you share your opinion (in sort of scary language) without citing supporting evidence, I don’t find your input compelling.

It seems to me that others are also sharing their opinions. They don’t happen to agree with you. Neither do I. Isn’t that okay? Since I’m the one who will reap the potential benefits or harm, I’m going to go with the science. I haven’t seen any which supports your claims.

#125

I’ve always been thrilled that this is the type of forum where everyone is free to express their thoughts, opinions, weblinks, and plain old gut feelings on various topics, and I, for one, appreciate hearing ALL the opinions, doctors and non-doctors alike. Does everyone on here who states a thought or opinion always have to provide documented “proof”? As they say in AA meetings, “Take what you need and leave the rest.”.

I believe he had some valid points, such as: "Many don’t drink enough water and many are eating salted kerry gold like nothing which causes sodium levels to increase therefore retaining water and causing the blood pressure to go up… the list goes on and on… Many mistakes are being Made since people don’t so their own research …majority don’t log what they eat … they just wing it… and u can’t… ".

This is not a way of eating to be taken lightly. If you’re going to do it, do the research, homework, listen to the varying opinions, and then figure out what works best for YOUR particular composition and chemistry.
Sue

(Ron) #126

And actually, current science seems to suggest that previous thinking on this issue might be flawed. I also feel that backing opinion from someone in a position of influence with scientific evidence would support their view greatly. IMO

(Ron) #127

I didn’t see where any opinions were being challenged. On the other hand, I did see where statements (from an admitted medical professional) were challenged and positive documentation was requested.

While I agree @Keto4life17 made some good points about the mis-guided beginners, someone as influential as he maybe shouldn’t express opinion so much as helpful guidance based on fact.

(Diane) #128

He also states his opinion in a very black and white way and much of what he states contradicts what I’ve been reading elsewhere (and he’s relatively new to the forum). These factors combined to set off a little warning bell in my head. I wanted to provide a counterbalancing viewpoint for consideration. That’s all. Everyone should read, listen, consider, chose, and proceed accordingly.

Best wishes to all in their journeys!

(LUIS) #129

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D8HNzrn_5nFw&ved=2ahUKEwj41I-A5dTcAhVCiFkKHb5JB1kQwqsBMAF6BAgKEAU&usg=AOvVaw23hTadFLaq4q50WNrgRTqq

(TJ Borden) #130

I hope you see the irony in this, especially given the rest of your comment.

I didn’t say YOU did.

Will do.

So you think most people on keto for the purpose of losing weight are doing it for vanity and not health?

If you don’t want me to pick apart your arguments, do a better job of stating your case. If you think eating loads of greens is important, show me the science. I’m open minded. If I wasn’t, I wouldn’t be here.

I believe getting doctors on board with understanding keto is crucial to save lives, but if having someone that mostly agrees with tou, and only disagrees on a few points is enough to make you make you stay away from people in need, how are you going to sell a patient that completely disagrees on the idea?

In closing; this is a forum, not a choir. It’s okay to disagree, and doing so isn’t automatically being “defensive”.

#131

I would have liked to read the whole chapter, not just one sentence.

Not agreeing or disagreeing, and I’m all good with eveyone - it just didn’t seem very convincing either way.

(TJ Borden) #132

Yeah… I can’t really trust the medical opinion on what causes fatty liver since it’s only been a few years since the same group acknowledged that it can be caused by something other than alcohol

(Ron) #133

@Keto4life17
The link Dr. Berg uses for his one reference is from the 10th Edition of Guyton Textbook of Medical Physiology that was published in January 1986, over 30 years ago and the reference sited in the book made no reference to Ketogenic eating but to “Effect of Insulin Lack on Causing a Fatty Liver”. I question the correctness of a 30+ year old reference and fail to see the correlation with what it addresses and this statement?

Dr. Berg also states in the video right before he presents this reference that alcohol and refined carbs and sugars cause fatty liver. These are things the Ketogenic Diet promotes to reduce which is beneficial to reducing NAFLD. Seems that your chances of this disease are greater on a SAD or any other way of eating to me.

(LUIS) #135

the bible is also old… do u question it because it’s an old book? it I show you literature from a new study then your answer would be there is not enough data or the study is skewed or too new. Anatomy and Physiology doesn’t change. For those that never studied in depth should go and study those books from cover to cover before commenting like you know more than I book simoly because it’s old… with that said I won’t be spending more of my time on this chat. Eat what you want and follow who you want. At the end is your own bodies and you can do as you please… checking out… good luck

#136

If I had a nickel for everytime I forgot about something I ate or drank…anyhoo…What’s going on in here? Looks feisty.

(TJ Borden) #137

Fair point. Our understanding of it, however, is being constantly revised.

Take cholesterol for example. Within my lifetime (and I’m not even 40 yet), we have gone from cholesterol being a single number, to being broken down to HDL (good) versus LDL (bad), to then realizing that LDL in itself isn’t necessarily bad, that it really has more to do with particle size; and now to where we understand LDL isn’t really to be feared at all, and in fact is vital, especially as we age, and what is a more accurate measure is the HDL to Triglyceride ratio.

The actual function and bio chemistry hasn’t changed, only our understanding has.

If you’re not interested in challenging other ideas or being challenged by other ideas then why are you on a forum to begin with? A forum using the Discourse platform, ironically enough.

(Aimee Moisa) #138

Oh, sheesh, I question it specifically because it is so old. Life 2000 to 4000 years ago was based on myth, legend, and superstition, not scientific research or rational thought. Also, so many fallible, selfish, greedy, misunderstanding hands went into writing the Bible down and editing it in the intervening two millennia since the most recent parts of the story supposedly took place that I can’t believe almost anything in it.

(Erin Wilson) #139

Yes. I do question the Bible because it’s old. I have a religious studies minor to prove it. It’s a book, written by humans in a time period AND it reflects the social and political issues of that period, even if “divinely inspired.” In that way it’s a lot like the Dietary Guidelines, the original “Banting” book, or anything else ever written by a human.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #140

Unfortunately, idolatry of holy scripture is a problem both in the Church of Christ and in the Church of Ancel Keys.