Heavy kids taken away from their parents - outrageous

(Jennibc) #1

This is infuriating - the judge didn’t believe the parents that they had been following calories in and calories out, so he or she put the kids in foster care. How many times have we had doctors suspect us of being noncompliant when we were. I am so angry about this. I think about all the money I spend on WW over the years strictly adhering to points and not have the scale practically move and have the ladies behind the counter eye me with suspicion when I said I’d been within point. https://slate.com/technology/2021/04/child-separation-weight-stigma-diets.html

(Jennibc) #2

Also, I’d like to add that I saw this article on twitter and one of the commenters talked about CICO and how it’s that ‘simple’ and went on with the law of thermodynamics BS. Why is everyone so hooked on that? We also have biochemistry coming it to play. I even linked to a study that discussed carbohydrates role (see link) yet even though I have successfully lost 120 pounds increasing my calories (!) simply going lower carb and cutting out seed oils, people insist I am wrong. If what you eat makes it impossible to access your fat stores, you metabolism screetches to a halt and you utilize far less energy so it’s really not that ‘simple’ I have absolutely nothing to gain by lying about my experience. I am not selling anything, just sharing my experience for free no less to help other people. Why are people so hell bent on arguing with someone who has been successful? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6082688/

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #3

There are reasons the dietary guidelines are so entrenched. Primarily they have to do with people, backed by the Seventh-Day Adventist Church, who are opposed to eating meat and to letting others eat meat. (Belinda Fettke did a lot of research to uncover this.) For example, the breakfast-cereal market was created by the Kellogg brothers, who were noted Seventh-Day Adventists, as a replacement for bacon and eggs. The Church owns the breakfast food market in Australia.

There is also a Puritan streak in the thinking behind the “eat less, move more” approach. As Gary Taubes points out, most of the research done on human nutrition and obesity before World War II was done by German researchers, so it was largely ignored by the American researchers who took over the field after the war. There is a deeply-engrained attitude underlying much American thinking to the effect that if you’re not perfect, it’s your own fault—a religious way of looking at things brought over by the Puritans who settled New England. So fat people are fat because they are lazy and gluttonous. Certainly they are not fat because the governmental advice is bad!

These days, too many careers have been based on Keys’ fraudulent research for anyone to be able to admit that we got it wrong. As Upton Sinclair wrote: “It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.”

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #4

The ‘argument from thermodynamics’ seems so simple and straight forward. 2 + 2 = 4. 10 - 4 = 6. Biochemistry is complicated, few want to go there just to get confused by chemical formulae.

In reality, thermodynamics is embedded in biochemistry - how could it be otherwise? The seeming simplicity is only evident in the bomb calorimeter of a physics lab. In metabolism the flow of energy as described by thermodynamics is not just in/out. It’s ‘in out around and about’ with one chemical process affecting the inputs of another, multiple times and differently each time depending on the previous outcome. Processes/reactions are controlled by the concentration of multiple hormones, enzymes and other molecules usually far beyond their minute concentrations would imply. Few want to try to figure out all this complexity.

Many just want an excuse not to give up their carb-centric eating. It’s way easier just to ‘eat less’ and ‘walk it off’ than actually understand what’s really happening inside your own body. Of course, the successful initial loss of fat by CICO diets is always advertised and celebrated. The ultimate failures seldom mentioned.

(Hyperbole- best thing in the universe!) #5

The same reason people hung on to the Four Humors system of medicine for centuries. It is easy to explain and makes sense with a limited understanding of how the universe works.

There is still no Grand Unifying Theory in physics. So many things we don’t fully understand.

The miasma theory of disease was wrong, but it explained a lot. Bad air is more intuitive than mosquitoes and droplets. But if you act on the idea of bad swamp air and that you should keep windows open, you’re going to prevent a lot of illness.

But getting to Germ Theory helps even more.

CICO does better than eating whatever you want. Doesn’t mean it is right. Also doesn’t mean that people who believe it are evil.

(Bob M) #6

I think the CICO-phants (like sycophants) who never ask “Why?” are evil, because what they say is a tautology. They can just keep repeating “you lost weight because you ate fewer calories!” {At least partially} True, but it’s the “But, why?” that’s more interesting. Therein lies answers. There are no answers by simply believing in CICO.

Most of them never get to the “Why?” part of this.

Personally, I’ve reached the conclusion that things are too complex to understand. Why is it that I can eat as many croissants as I want, yet others eat them and get full? How much protein/fat should I be eating? If I moved back my dinner, would that really help me? If so, by how much do I have to move it back? If I wanted to fast, how much is optimal? How much is too much?

I could spend the next hour or so detailing what I don’t know. It’s way more than what I know. And I’ve been low carb/keto since 1/1/14, and went on Atkins multiple times before that (though believed I “had” to have carbs for exercise).

Personally, I don’t ague with CICO-phants because it’s useless.

(Jennibc) #7

I certainly don’t think they are evil, but many who believe it will believe nothing else despite new available evidence, which means they are stubborn!

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #8

… a recent CDC study that reported the vast majority (78%) of those hospitalized or dead from Covid have been overweight or obese.

Of Americans aged 20 and over 73.6% are overweight; 42.5% are obese. (Obesity is defined as a body mass index (BMI) of over 30.) Many studies explain how obesity decreases resistance to infection. Obesity is linked to type 2 diabetes, hypertension, and heart disease, which increase the odds of hospitalization from Covid.
…
A significant factor in the startling numbers of overweight Americans is the consumption of high-fructose corn syrup in heavily processed foods.

The total per capita consumption of all sugars in the United States is approximately 150 pounds a year. Of that, the average American consumes over 50 pounds of corn sweeteners a year.

Sugar is heavily subsidized by the US government through loans, purchases of sugar, and tariffs on imported sugar. Government incentives have created a high-fructose corn syrup industry which didn’t exist prior to the 1970s. US sugar prices can be up to twice the world price.

From 1995-2020, corn subsidies in the United States totaled $116.6 billion. The subsidized and surplus corn ends up not only as processed food but as animal feed.

is-there-a-problem-here-ooooh-darn-it-14656700

(Bob M) #9

Though, technically, I’m still obese or at least high in the overweight class…after 7 years low carb. (And there is zero chance I’ll be in the normal weight category; too much muscle for that.)

#10

Should be easy enough for the government to prove. They can supervise the diet of the kids for a month and show how much weight they lose.

I wonder what their weight is if they are at the 99th percentile? Although that can be a fake metric because if everyone in the group varied by no more than a few pounds, the 99th percentile would have no meaning. What percentile would they be at if they lost 10% of their weight?

On My 600-lb Life, the surgeon always puts the new patients on a low calorie (and low carb?) diet for the first several months, telling them they should drop 30, even 60 pounds per month.

One guy was told he should drop 120 pounds in two months (started at 710 pounds). He actually dropped 141 pounds. Ended up dropping 250+ pounds before he even had the surgery.

Another patient actually gained weight the first two month and SWORE that she followed the diet closely. She had been told she should lose 60 pounds. They had to hospitalize her for several months for a related condition. During the hospital stay, her food intake was controlled, and she dropped 68 pounds in the first two months.

How many Biggest Loser contestants failed to lose weight during the show (on that unsustainable trip of exercise and diet)? If “eat less and exercise more” doesn’t work, then the show shouldn’t have as much weight loss as it did.

#11

‘old diet myth’ thinkers. ugh. I think we all been there, tried that LOL

thing is the CICO is OLD but SO many still believe it and still desperately want it to work. Plus it is still pushed out there as a ‘real deal’ healthy plan.

It isn’t even CICO in full truth. It is WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU EATING for those kcals? Your food choices are key.

1000 kcals of donuts? hey sticking to my CICO amt.

1000 kcals of meat/veg/maybe a little treat in there that is smart controlled…yea one gets results they would not on the above donut kcal amt.

So what we eat in those CICO limits are key but I don’t think alot of people get that at all…I know I sure tried to eat my ‘allotment’ of food in junk many times LOL I ain’t foolin’ anyone here :slight_smile: I tried the ‘limit 1500 kcals’ and all I wanted was crap in that kcal amt.

So it is what you eat vs. all about the kcals anyway as we guys all know but I think when someone who just has no interest, no research at all about obesity factors or whatever issue is keeping them from learning and gaining real health info…then yea, I kept ‘the kids’ to XYZ kcals per day…but what foods were being eaten?

I love the ‘fruit BS’ out there. I can’t lose weight, I am only eating grapefruit am with a piece of toast, I am eating a banana with a turkey sandwich at lunch and only having pineapple with my ‘portion controlled’ chicken with mac n cheese and few green beans dinner…where are the usless kcals in all this…the trouble? the wonderful fruit we put into our menu LOL

but again, many don’t get this at all. We are what foods we eat…not our kcal controlled limited allotment.

Now IF THAT info would get out there ya know.

SO ON the fence with the parents…but kids taken away NO…it should be parents are required ot take a class on nutrition BUT WHAT BS are they being served? :slight_smile: :slight_smile: BS that can’t help them help their kids.
Horrible situation all around!!!

Can’t wait to see a real health person tackle this line of BS where our ‘govt steps in to help’ but can really friggin’ help thru real nutrition guidelines…will that ever happen? no clue

sad…all of it is sad :frowning:

(Bob M) #12

When will they have a show about what they look like today?

That’s why “eat less and exercise more” doesn’t work - because it doesn’t.

#13

oh just google what they did on Biggest Loser. They starved. Point blank and then they worked out like 8-9 hrs in the gym each day.

exercise and eat less…yea taken to literal torture style.

so much info on why BL was a fraud. ugh

#14

Screw that, stop making excuses. There’s 3 kids in a house a couple down from mine, all elementary school kids and they’re all as round as they are tall, that’s ABSOLUTELY abuse! They didn’t do that to themselves, there parents did, which are very conveniently also morbidly obese. I’d like to see these actual kids which we won’t. I don’t want my 7yo to be an obese unhealthy diabetic with metabolic issues, so guess what? I feed him healthy foods and limit his crap intake to a very minimal part of what he gets. Not rocket science.

#15

Many say a ketogenic diet doesn’t work either, because they claim it’s not sustainable.

I don’t know of any diet (or exercise plan) that keeps the weight off after someone goes back to old habits.

Scientific American did a follow-up on the contestants:

Researchers studied 14 [The Biggest Loser] contestants who participated in the 30-week competition, which involves intensive diet and exercise training.

They started at an average weight of 328 pounds (about 149 kg) and ended at an average weight of 200 pounds (about 91 kg).

Six years later, when the six men and eight women went to the National Institutes of Health for follow-up measurements, their weight, on average, was back up to 290 pounds. Only one participant hadn’t regained any weight.

Similarly, percent body fat started at an average of 49 percent, dipped to 28 percent and returned to 45 percent over time.

But resting metabolic rate did not follow the same pattern.

The group as a whole on average burned 2,607 calories per day at rest before the competition, which dropped to about 2,000 calories per day at the end.

Six years later, calorie burning had slowed further to 1,900 per day

(UsedToBeT2D) #16

What’s wrong with you people? Our government knows what is best for us. LMAO.

(Vic) #17

:joy:

#18

I’m from the govt and I’m here to help! :crazy_face::stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes::skull_and_crossbones:

you don’t take kids from parents. YOU GIVE the parents the CORRECT tools and information but damn, no authority has the correct information out there on nutrition, they are old school and driven by food pyramids and profits from companies funding all that…so there is no win win here.

(GINA ) #19

My kids are grown now and fine, but I had to go against the experts to get them there. My pediatrician preached low fat and that meat wasn’t necessary when my kids were toddlers.

I am a school administrator and over a year of distance learning by computer has given me and interesting window into students’ homes. I am sure it is worse because of the situation, but it is hard to believe the number of kids drinking full size sodas, having Cheetos for breakfast, and snacking all.day.long. I watched their little faces getting chubbier and chubbier.

I try not to be too judgy because I am sure it is hard watching your kid not be able to go to school, or play sports, or see their friends, or see their grandparents. Maybe bringing home a Lunchable and soda will make them feel better.

The kids are coming back to school now and many of them have no stamina at all. Yestrrday I watched a second grader run for a ball that got thrown out of a game, and he stopped halfway back and had to sit down on the ball because he was too tired to go any further.

(Vic) #20

Is the food piramid displayed in every hallway of your school?

It is here in Belgium, Europe.

I talked to the administator of the school about it a few years ago, he said it was mandated by the ministries of education, same posters for every school.

Its practically a copy of the US pyramid.