Heart palpitations on Keto?

(Steve) #1

Is anyone aware of information regarding heart palpitations as a result of, or coinciding with Keto?

I’ve been in ketosis at least 2 1/2 months, and I’m seeing great results. However, I recently started experiencing heart palpitations. I increased my electrolyte supplementation, mainly of potassium and sodium, which appeared to help. I’m currently supplementing almost to the recommended daily allowance of potassium (4700mg) and I’m getting at least 3 or 4 grams of sodium a day.

I also have blood work coming in today, although my doc may have been confused, so I’m not sure what she ordered. (She said she didn’t know how to read an ldl-p test, but seemed intent on learning.)

I can’t necessarily attribute the palpitations to Keto, but I’m trying to rule things out.

Thanks in advance for any insights.

Are my Ketones too high?
#2

I was in a similar situation many years ago, but not doing keto, and I have some medical training, but I’m not a doctor. :wink:

Many palpitations are a result of ectopic ventricular beats in the form of Premature Ventricular Contractions (PVCs) and can come single, double (couplet) or triple (triplet).

People tend to have them all the time, as many as 1 or 2 per hour, but your doctor would know better what the currently accepted norms are. Most people don’t even notice them.

I would suggest that you at least discuss the palpitations, especially if they coincide with any feelings of weakness at the time, and the doc might refer you to a cardiologist for a 24-hour Holter monitor, or the doc might just consider them to be normal.

I’m not a doctor, so I can’t say if what you’re experiencing is normal or not, just offering some insight into what often causes palpitations and ways to rule out if they are something to be concerned with or not.

Supplementing potassium is controversial because it can contribute to heart arrhythmias and when taking enough sodium, the body tends to naturally self-regulate potassium and instead of supplementing potassium, I’d recommend getting it from something like avocados.

(Tom Seest) #3

Yes. If you are concerned, you can order RBC Tests for Magnesium and Potassium, and other electrolytes. I currently have an Atrial Fibrillation (3 months now), that came on after Pneumonia in December. I’ve been Keto for 2.25 years. I don’t relate the two, but electrolytes can effect it. If you are concerned, order intro-cellular tests for electrolytes.

Here is the test for Magnesium: http://requestatest.com/magnesium-rbc-testing

Here is the test for Potassium: http://requestatest.com/potassium-rbc-testing

However, I’m not sure that the ranges they set for normal are accurate for a Ketogenic diet, as I’m pretty sure that a Ketogenic diet puts more demands for things like Magnesium, Sodium, and Potassium.

(Steve) #4

Thanks for the input guys. I think I’m going to go on ahead and make an appointment and get electrolytes tested. I need some other blood work anyway.

I just got results from my first lipid panel today, and it was supposed to include potassium, but she missed that.

Mostly likely it’s either stress or other medication. I certainly am not blaming Keto. keto’s done nothing but benefit me, as in normal blood sugar (was borderline diabetic) improved cholesterol, nearly 50 pounds lost, etc.

Thanks again.

(Retta Stephenson) #5

I complained of certain symptoms for YEARS. My doctor would run the blood serum tests. “It’s all normal”. No relief from said symptoms. After being diagnosed with Atrial Fibrillation last year, did a lot of reading. Found out the regularly done blood serum test for magnesium (and others) only shows about 1% of the levels of magnesium in the human body.

After running the tests (had to pay for it myself) that Tom recommended here for magnesium (the Magnesium RBC test) I found out I was actually LOW. Since the heart is a muscle, and uses more magnesium than any other muscle in the body, I’m supplementing with a liquid absorbable magnesium called ReMag. I’m hoping to heal my heart muscle (I read it can take months) and my irregular heartbeat and AFib. In the meantime, my debilitating painful muscle cramps are starting to subside. VERY happy about that.

All that to say: I second Tom’s recommendation for the tests. :smiley:

(Steve) #6

That sounds good to me. I’m already supplementing magnesium, but I found that it has a tendency to inspire the back door trots. I currently take about a third of the recommended daily allowance.

I’ve heard mixed reviews on types of magnesium and how they affect your digestive system.

I can’t imagine any reason that I’d have enough magnesium in my system, especially since I currently have about three different things in my life that are diuretic. (I decided to lay off the caffeine for a while yesterday, which seems to be helping.)

Do you folks have any thoughts on that?

(Retta Stephenson) #7

@PapaChanoli, yes I was taking magnesium also. Every day, for years. But it was in pill form, and found out that the main form was magnesium oxide, the form that is the least bioavailable to the body, which can absorb only about 4% of mag oxide. I was taking 800 mg per day, in divided doses. To no effect.
If I took more, then yes the body expelled the overload that was not absorbed.

The answer for me was: I switched to a liquid form called ReMag (I’m sure there are other similar brands, I just haven’t researched them). It is picometer sized, and the body absorbs it well before it even reaches the lower bowels, where magnesium can put things in overdrive.

I started slow, at 1/8 teaspoon, put into water, sipped thru the day. All was well. Increased to 1/4 t, then 1/2 t. Still no problems. I plan to work up the the therapeutic dose of about 1 teasp, 3x/day, which equals about 900 mg. (or to bowel tolerance, whichever comes first).

To find relief and healing is worth the extra cost to me, since this has been YEARS of painful muscle issues. The makers of it say to work up dosage slowly, because it activates many many processes that have been starved for magnesium, and you don’t want to feel worse before you feel better.

I totally got that concept. Same thing with stuff like keto flu when first starting. :smiley:

I read the book about magnesium that really helped me figure it out: The Magnesium Miracle by Dr Carolyn Dean (the updated & revised version). In it are lists of things that affect magnesium levels, such as which prescriptions. Things like diuretics, blood pressure rx’s, antiacids, laxatives, meds for diabetes, certain antibiotics, etc etc.
It also covers various types of magnesium, and their affects on the body (which have a laxative affect, etc).

Here is one part that particularly struck me, talking about the importance of both calcium and magnesium, and what happens if one gets too low on magnesium:
“If calcium accumulates in the cells, it causes hyperexcitibility and calcification and disrupts cell function. Too much calcium entering cells can cause symptoms of heart disease (such as angina, high blood pressure, and arrhythmia), asthma, or headaches. Magnesium is nature’s calcium channel blocker.”

https://smile.amazon.com/Magnesium-Miracle-Revised-Updated/dp/034549458X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1492294473&sr=1-1&keywords=the+magnesium+miracle+revised+and+updated+2014+edition

(Steve) #8

Thsnk you again. That’s great info and I especially appreciate the resources. It’s time for me to understand magnesium better.

Just stopping caffeine has helped a lot, but I’m sure I’m low on Mag.

(Oguz K) #9

I started Keto and fasting a week ago. I found this while googling. I also started having rapid heartbeats and what feels like skipping a beat. While googling, I found out that lack of potassium gives you that. I took a supplement and it was gone for that day. Next day it’s back again. So I guess I should start taking supplements.

#10

I had a severe episode of heart palpitations and difficulty breathing last year when I went on a RFLP, which is rapid fat-loss protocol, basically a fat fast with bullet proof coffee and if still hungry some butter, and on day 3-4 went to the ER due to my symptoms, they went away gradually after I broke my fast, I wasn’t fat adopted yet so that was not a wise thing for me to do back then, plus its only recommended for people who have tons of weight to lose not 10lbs.

One theory was that the over stimulation of the Vegus nerve. Anyone heard about this?

I would like to do a 3 day fast but I’m worried this will happen again.
I’m also taking tons of salt, Mg both in Citrate and Glycinate froms (about800mgs) and 200 mg k everyday.

(Tom Seest) #11

Yes. The Vegus Nerve directly effects the heart and can lead to palpitations, problems with rhythm, etc.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4176918/

Stimulating it can also rest the heart to a normal rhythm.

The bottom line is that your body is reacting to stress. So, just pay close attention to your body during a fast. If you feel any reason where you feel “off” or wrong or bad, bail on the fast and live to fast another day. The fact that you’ve learned this much tells me you’re already doing this, but I want to emphasize the point.

Good work on the electrolytes.

#12

Thanks Tom, I usually try to listen to my body, but these symptoms kind of creeped up on me last time. I did experience major fatigue beforehand maybe that should’ve been a huge red flag. The scary thing is that something happens in the gut that triggers the lungs and the heart beat.

(Tom Seest) #13

It’s amazing though isn’t it. The impact of “eating” or “not eating” effects us so dramatically.

If you want a relatively easy way to “listen” to the body, my latest technique is to use Heart Rate Variability software or apps. While I have no special knowledge on the topic, you can use a heart rate strap (I wear one 24 x 7 for my heart problems), and use software like Elite HRV (as an app on your phone), and it will tell you when your heart is stressed before you will every know it. I’ve learned to listen to this app, because it is very accurate in determining when my body is feeling the stress. It is only my theory that it works well during fasts, but others here are having good results with it as well.

It won’t tell you what is causing the stress. It could be a virus, a cold, electrolytes. It could be anything.

But, it will tell you that there is stress. And, as you’ve found out; you don’t want heart related stress.

#14

Funny you should mention HRV, I use an Oura ring to see how I sleep, its quite amazing and I’m addicted to using it, specifically for sleep tracking. , I don’t have enough knowledge on the HRV portion yet, need to teach myself how to interpret the data, this ring also gives me body temp readings and warns me if I have elevated body temps.
Thanks for mentioning I will be looking into this more closely.
https://ouraring.com/the-ring/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIxLPOkLOM1wIVBkOGCh3WyALREAAYASAAEgLzJPD_BwE

(Tom Seest) #15

The Elite HRV product is designed to tell you whether you should work out at any given time. It analyzes the numbers and gives you a “fuel” style gauge to indicate whether you should train and workout. I use this because it allows me to have the same effect for a different reason. I just take the same information, and use it for my own purposes.

Kind of like you do with your sleep data.

I do the same thing with my Apple Watch and my sleep data. It all effects the Heart Rate Variability data.

Elite HRV has an excellent podcast that describes how it works, but I’m only in the beginning stages of listening to all the episodes.

But, they have a great site to learn from.

#16

Awesome! Thank you so much! I will definitely give a listen. I’ve been wanting to educate myself on this topic.!

(John Squires) #17

Just remember, going to Vegas can stimulate your Vagus. Not being a smart ass - it’s just how I remember the different spellings. I’ve been on Keto for 8 weeks now and have lost 30 pounds. I also have Afib and for the last several days, I’ve had more frequent and longer episodes. Heart pounding, 120-140 bpm, reduced strength, etc. My normal ketone levels were in the 1.1-1.8 range most days. A few days ago, I started taking exogenous ketone tablets, but only 2 per day (my brand’s recommended dosage is 4 per day). This has boosted by ketones to the 2.8 to 4.0 range. Another factor, however, is that I’ve not taken most of my prescription drugs for 3 days, either (depression, panic attacks, thyroid, hypertension), so the Afib attacks could be withdrawal from those. I didn’t intentionally stop them - just ran out of pill organizers and kept forgetting to refill them. Got back on them this morning.

(Tom Seest) #18

Yes. Many people have afib caused by stimulation of the vagus nerve. In my case, it wasn’t a factor. Oddly, people with this condition are often able to stop and episode of A-Fib by stimulating the nerve in a specific way. Some use exercise, some use specific moves that have worked for them in the past, and even a rectal exam can stimulate and convert some people:

In my case, the vagus nerve didn’t seem to be related to my problem. I feel bad for those that have this condition though, as it usually leads to more symptoms than I experienced.

(Dave Choiniere) #19

I started having heart palpitations sometimes 5 an hour sometimes 35 an hour. I had no other symptoms except that your regular heartbeat that would wake me from my sleep. Sometimes the simple fix like low magnesium or potassium Etc but take it seriously and see your doctor. I went to the ER twice and the second time they were going to send me home because my PVCs were to irregular even though they were seen on the heart monitor. I refuse to let them send me home and the very next morning found out that my hemoglobin level was only 6 when it should be a hundred and fifty and my iron levels were only 6 and they should have been over 12. Needless to say I had two blood transfusions and three iron transfusions within the next 24 hours. So take it seriously when your body is giving you warning signs! Now all the doctors I seen in court or eluding including the cardiologist say that it’s not because I’m on the ketogenic diet. I’ve been on it for 5 months and have lost almost 50 pounds. They say it’s from chronic anemia but when your body gives you the warning signs take them seriously and see your doctor! I’m also a licensed nutritionist and can suggest vitamins and minerals for such a thing but if your heart is palpitating that is a trip to the doctor