Good or bad


When came low-fat? Because I still can’t believe people get hungry much just because they eat high-carb… Everyone around me ate high-carb without having these problems, they ate lots of fat though…
Carbs make me hungry but even I wasn’t hungry much on high-carb as I simply ate enough fat and calories (too much but I didn’t need to stand hunger and that was the important thing for me).
My SO eats at maintenance on high-carb and if he can choose the 3 mealtimes, he doesn’t need to go hungry. Carbs suit him though. But even I can do maintenance with carbs, I just need to do OMAD. Bering satiated for a day is very easy if I can use lots of carbs! (If I do it right and eat my calories
at once, it’s very easy to do with carbs, I just need to keep in mind that’s the goal.) They are good at long term satiation, apparently, the short-term is problematic but an OMAD sized meal does the trick. I feel the best on high-carb when I do OMAD anyway. So if a carby apocalypse or too tempting Christmas comes, I go for OMAD.
Of course, it may be just me but masses on high-carb are fine and not hungry much…


It still can harm, obviously, food items are like this, they can be unhealthy even if one uses up the energy… Most people burn off most of it, they eat carbs for fuel… Not on top of their fat and protein calories (like I probably often did, good thing I have good genetics and I was young too)…


That’s my goal as a hedonist. Sounds easy enough to me :slight_smile: In my own case that I won’t explain, too complicated and parts of it are my beliefs.
I can’t resist temptation but health is highly important, joy is very important too, I hate restrictions… So I need to reach that. It goes well, after 20 years of almost constant efforts I should be close enough :wink: I am at 12 years. I personally always considered me quite healthy but it always can get better.

I don’t crave carbs though, whatever keto couldn’t undo, carnivore did (I eat carbs for other reasons but I am working on them). And my hedonist self rewrites my brain if it needed to eat everything I want while being as healthy as possible…

We can change a lot :wink:

I am fine if I seem and act healthy until 130… My anchestors did it until ~80 even with their carby diet, hopefully if I do everything right, I can go further. But good genes can be enough even without a really good diet, I met tons of people who didn’t even want to live beyond 80. Of course, most people don’t have that good genes… And even if one has, their diet must be okay to some extent…

I liked my on/off keto weeks :slight_smile: Ketosis gave nothing to me and I didn’t like the restrictions. So I basically continued my low-carb times while keeping my fat-adaptation (that was useful), it was the best I could do at the time so I am pleased with my decision.
I never ever would advice it to anyone though.

(Arin Morfoot) #124

You might try cycle in and out of ketosis by occasionally increasing your carbohydrate intake, also known as “carb cycling.” This can help prevent the body from adapting to the low-carb diet, and can also make it easier to stick to the diet long-term.

(Allie) #125

We encourage people to adopt the ketogenic WOE as a lifestyle as that is how it works best, not a paddling pool to dip toes in and out of.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #126

The notion that saturated fat causes heart disease was promoted by Ancel Benjamin Keys in the 1950’s and 1960’s. It was resisted by the American Heart Foundation, until Keys managed to get onto their Nutrition Committee, at which point it became AHA dogma. Several of Keys’s friends were being paid by the Sugar Foundation around that time to play down the risks of eating sugar and play up the risks of eating fat.

In the data collected for Keys’s Seven Countries Study (which actually studied 22 countries), there was a stronger correlation between sugar consumption and coronary heart disease, but Keys dismissed it in favour of the correlation between fat and coronary heart disease—which, by the way, appears only in the data from the seven countries that he ended up publishing. (Picking your data to fit your hypothesis is scientific fraud, by the way.)

There were other forces at work influencing the McGovern committee in the 1970’s but Keys’s friends were also involved in shaping their eventual recommendations. And once the dietary guidelines were published, it was off to the races.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #127

Since a ketogenic diet works best after we adapt to it, I’m not sure I see the logic in this advice.

(Robin) #128

@Arin_Morfoot, this statement made me chuckle. Cycling in and out of keto. Sure, there are folks who could do that. But many (probably most) of us have a keen awareness of the dangers that lurk outside our borders. Carbs create cravings. Physical and/or emotional. If you can handle that, go for it.
My body finally trusts me for the first time in 60 plus years. To do that sort of back and forth now would be a disaster. I may as well start drinking and smoking again, while I’m at it. And then hope I can stop again in a month or so.
Sorry, but I no longer dance with my personal demons. Not only am I now in control, but I am on autopilot. Steady as she goes.


Why don’t we want to adapt to it? And what does it mean? Well there is fat adaptation but we can’t avoid that with off days, it just slows down if we didn’t reach it before…

If I want to eat very low-carb, I would think I want to adapt to it and feel right on it…

With the on/off diet, you mean, mostly keto but with regular off days.
Well it may help but I heard about fewer people who enjoys this and more who simply go high-carb for a long time again, having problems… Some can come back but they suffer each time they add more carbs… But individually, yes, it may be useful. I still very rarely decide on such times, they happen without my will frequently enough… I aim to stay on keto (and close to carnivore) as much as I comfortably can. But I met people who planned regular off days. Each to their own, I suppose. I train myself to lose the desire or other needs to go off. I am pretty sure I always will keep my off days but they should be very rare and somewhat limited.
But my body prefers very low net plant carbs. Some people needs more carbs even if it’s not essential for the human body.

(Edith) #130

Yet, you still had a high A1C, so your previous way of eating was not working for you. You may be have been thin on the outside, but the inside was heading in the wrong direction. So, like mentioned above, just because people seem to be able to eat what they want and appear thin and healthy, they may not be that way on the inside. Who knows what medications they may be taking.

I recently read an article in the AARP magazine. They interviewed a number of people and asked them what they thought it meant to be healthy. Most replied with feeling good and being able to walk around and do the things they want to do. It didn’t matter that they were on cholesterol lowering medication, blood pressure medication, diabetes medication, etc. In MY mind, if you have to be on all those medications, you are NOT healthy. So, the definition of health seems to be relative. What is YOUR definition of health?

But, to answer your question, I concur with the others to slowly increase your carbs and if you feel those cravings kicking back in or symptoms return, you will know you need to pull back. I have found the more I add in carbs, the more carbs I want to add in. It is a very slippery slope.

(Chuck) #131

I read this and want to laugh, the whole reason for keto, low carb is a healthy way of living. Cycling is wrong and keeps the body in turmoil. Never really getting healthy and possibly going from one inflammatory state to another. I am 75 and I have tried almost every ill conceived diet there is, and keto, low carb works. At 75 I am healthier and more energetic than I have been most of my adult life. Since starting the Keto lifestyle back in September, the transformation was unbelievable to me once I past through the so called keto flu. My vision improved, my brain hasn’t been so clear of brain fog in years, my skin isn’t as dry or flaky, even my hair has a shin to it. My headaches are gone, my sinuses are less, no joint pain anymore. Does that sound like I want to destroy what I have and start screwing up up by cycling.


Yeah I think that too. It’s interesting some people lowered their expectation about health so much…

If the carbs are low, I have the same. I add my little extras… A little more, maybe… And it starts to get out of hand. I experienced that so many times…

But if I add more (maybe 80g carbs or more), the higher I go, the more quicker and stricter I come back. I always had this. I can’t stay on high-carb, I don’t have that kind of masochism or willpower! I can’t help coming back, it’s an overwhelming desire.
It’s nice but the slippery slope with some modest amount of carbs (normal keto for me), that’s not so nice. I do need some freedom but not too much! (Or rather I need all the freedom and proper desires not to go far… I LOVE being able to eat whatever I want while not wanting much more than my carni food.)
When I feel forceful restriction, that doesn’t work either. I need to be able to handle what I choose.

(Chuck) #133

I keep my total carbs below 50 , which I find easy for me to do. Most days my total carbs are closer to 20, I also keep sugars as close to 0 as possible, the longer I do it the easier it becomes, even though I live with my wife that seems to only eat carbs. My answer to anyone that ask me how I can keep doing this is simple for me and impossible for so many, it is calling discipline. Being raised by disciplined parents and extended family and 8 years in the military just hammers it home.

(Edith) #134

Yes, you are totally correct. The less healthy our societies become, the more we lower our expectations and move the goal posts.


I have no discipline but there are other things to use :slight_smile: I have huge stubbornness. And patience. My line isn’t clean and straight for sure but I meander to the right direction :wink:

And one gets somewhat desensitized to the carbs being around all the time. I cook and bake for my high-carber SO. I watch him eating lovely carby food every day… It’s fine. Usually. If possible, I avoid the biggest temptations as I can’t (and probably don’t want to) resist even small ones :slight_smile: It’s my core personality, I can’t even want to train myself at resisting. No, I don’t resist. I need to AVOID temptation and there are ways to get better at that. Slowly. In some years or decades. It’s fine. I don’t have other options.

Makes sense. People tend to follow the norm like that. While I have this weird opinion that most people are so sickly! Or it seems. It hits me so often. I always get surprised how often people get sick, even the healthier, younger ones. Mom and me were almost never sick. I catched a short cold here and there as a kid (then stopped), she had nothing. This is the norm to me. But I understand colds. But when people give me a long list… OMG. And often many of them are just too serious. And diarrhea isn’t a horrible, extreme, must get rid of asap and hopefully never meet it again thing for them just something almost normal… I got it a single time lately, at least a decade after the last one and my trust in my own body was seriously shaken as I didn’t even see a reason. I felt so unhealthy (it was a mental thing as I felt fine physically when a whole day passed and not too bad until then)! :frowning: I cling to my health. But I suppose, it can’t be perfect (I knew it wasn’t, I have glasses and missing teeth and I get mild cold symptoms TWICE in the last year, I was unpleased with once in 15 years before) and as long as my body fights off things, it’s okay.

I might have carried away.

By the way I am distressed when I see how very common the various horrible health problems are. Like the poor ones who always feel hungry. 1-2 in the world would be too much. Poor souls.

(KM) #136

I still maintain that many cultures had a different diet, seasonally. Probably never high carb, except for a rare honeycomb or overlooked fruit tree certainly nowhere near what a high carb meal looks like now, but in summer and fall plant foods are plentiful, easy to find and much easier to catch than rabbits and zebra, haha. I doubt my ancestors turned up their noses. So maybe what carbs and when, rather than whether? Certainly not once a week, but maybe a local berry for two weeks in August?? Fiddleheads in March? A handful of wild rice in October? N=1, when my bloodwork supports the idea, I’ll consider it.

(Chuck) #137

True the evil carb is the processed food carbs. The key that destroyed so many people with health issues is the food factories that process the hack of what they call eatable food which is nothing more than garbage.


Rosehip whenever I walk near them in winter and fancy one? :smiley:
I don’t know a single time of the year when I can’t find some fruit (EDIT: except in April and May, maybe the second part of March too?)… Not in the wild, that just, IDK, half of the year? Of course I barely get any carbs from those. Wouldn’t help with starvation. Good thing we have walnuts too. I still would be doomed but I am not fit to live in the wild anyway.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #139

I don’t know. Isotope analyses are hard to argue with. Apparently it is possible to distinguish between strict meat eaters, people with fish in their diet, and people who eat mostly plants. Michael Eade has a lecture on YouTube about this, in many incarnations, and one of the things he points out is the marked difference in skeletal condition between hunter-gatherer societies and agricultural societies. A fascinating talk!

(KM) #140

You’re making my point, I think. :slightly_smiling_face:. HG cultures eating what was available to them in season, whether that was seal blubber, steer blood or papaya, survived and thrived as individuals, more so than ag cultures, which survived, less well, by greater numbers. I firmly believe it, our bodies evolved to survive on naturally available nutrition. We have small teeth, no claws, lousy camouflage. We’re not particularly strong or fast. The world said “here’s food, we got antelopes and artichokes”, we said, “thank you”. When we said “we made food”, the world said, “how’s that working out for ya?”