Good or bad

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #21

There are people who are insulin-sensitive enough to be able to safely eat more than the 20 g/day we recommend to people who are metabolically dysfunctional.

There are also people who are in the process of damaging their metabolisms, but who still appear healthy

And lastly, there are millions of people who are thin, but who are metabolically dysfunctional, so they too look healthy, though they aren’t. For them, the term TOFI was invented.

(Chuck) #22

I believe at my 21 birthday I was one of the ones thin but already was what you are talking about, and then I went to Navy boot camp the extremely carb heavy diet pushed me over the edge. I recovered for a short time back in the early 1980s when I followed the Atkins diet because I lost a lot of weight and returned to weighing what I did before boot camp, but allowed myself to get off the diet and regained what I had lost and so much more. I don’t intend to let that happen again, but I am scared of what would happen if I had to be admitted to the hospital and that environment mentality on food. I have seen it too many times with my wife being in the hospital.


Just avoid the carbs; the bread the rice the potatoes, desserts, etc and ask for more animal proteins, butter. You could also ask to speak to their nutritionist and tell them specifically what you want to eat.


Very good advice and i do intend to check my a1c every 3-6 months. But I only got to an a1c of 7.2 because my carb intake was way out of control. I would binge on milkshakes and chocolate routinely and never gained much weight. Which is why I never thought to check my a1c. Glad I did and I never intend to binge on those carby foods again.

(Chuck) #25

That is actually the way I was in my late teens, skinny as a beanpole but consumed all the wrong foods. Then boot camp pushed me over the edge I believe.


I think when we’re young and healthy we can consume almost any foods without doing much damage. However what happens as we grow older our bodies become less efficient and if we continue eating the way we did in our youth, consuming huge amounts of carbs we get sick in all sorts of ways. Point being, it’s never too late to change ones eating habits.

(Bob M) #27

It was also way easier to lose weight when younger. I remember after boot camp gaining weight due to ice cream. I lost that weight quite quickly. Fast forward 30 years and it took me years to lose 20 pounds


It definitely isn’t true, our body has needs and a really bad diet inevitably causes damage, no matter the age. But the young body are not so damaged yet so the damage just gets bigger without anyone noticing it yet.
I say that about really bad (but too common) diets, not merely eating much carbs but from the not so bad sources while having plenty of protein, nutrients, enough fat. That is much better than half-living on candies and avoiding protein. Sometimes I don’t understand how someone can stay alive without even feeling something is very wrong.


Surprisingly no matter how much I eat I never have a weight problem, even at the ripe old age of 69 I’m not more than a pound or two overweight


I think most young people eat too much of everything so I dont think there’s too much chance of them not getting enough of fat and protein

(Chuck) #31

I am an alumni of an exclusive military unit that I was with in my 20s, I see what has happened to so many of the guys and gals that I worked with. Back then most of them could not seem to get enough to eat. And due to what we did a lot of it was junk food. I see the same ones today, well at least the ones still breathing. Most are in a lot worse shape than me, cancer, diabetes, heart disease, and obese. Even before I started this diet lifestyle I was asked what my secret was. I don’t really know. Except that I have mostly followed my up bringing of being a meat and potatoes eater. Yes potatoes are good and yes the bread and sometimes desserts are that good, but I was mostly meat, diary, and vegetables type of eater. My issue has always been desserts and bread. Back in the 1980s I went cold turkey Atkins diet felt great and lost down to the weight I was as a teenager. But life was fast time was at a premium and my wife and I started eating on the run due our work schedule. I gained it all back and a lot more. In 2011 I committed myself to losing weight and I managed to do so by the misleading concept of eat less move more. It sort of worked but I just yo yoed up and down and with Covid I get I am guessing depressed with the restrictions and gained it back to a point. With Covid in full swing I had plenty of time to read so in the process I found a series of books on keto. And it was my stepson that asked me to do keto with him. We are both losing and researching and finding recipes and eating ideas.


But many young people has anorexia too etc.
Most probably eat too much - but most people eat too little protein in the world so it’s very easy to do so, it seems.

I don’t think many people lack the minimum amount of fat but I considered it important to add as it’s essential. And some people manage not to meet it, ouch.

Some people are like that :slight_smile: And many people (a big portion of the population) are like me I have read, gaining fat is very hard (very serious and frequent overeating is needed) and slow for us. That’s why I am the stalling type. I eat modestly? I maintain. I eat very much? I maintain. I need to eat quite little from my viewpoint to lose and extremely much to gain (super slowly). IDK about others, carbs don’t matter in my case, if I eat in my big maintenance range, I maintain.
Some people who never gain are like others who are very fat BUT being happy with much less. See the thin ones who can eat as much as they want/can and never gain - but it’s because they always eat little and can’t eat much. But many thin people can eat really much and don’t gain. But everyone has their limits. It’s like the limit for protein, I would get protein toxicity with too high protein as everyone else but I am unable to eat that much by my own will. So I never get it, no matter how much protein I eat. As it’s never too much.


That’s pretty wide open, to start, there is no real 20g “rule”. That’s a guideline to start people off and where the majority will enter ketosis. No shortage of people eat more than that. But there’s a big difference between eating more on a day and “no limit”.

Unfortunately, the mindset that people who eat carbs are automatically unhealthy is just Keto dogma, over reacting and pretening we’ll have runaway inflammation, that our blood sugar will send us into diabetic coma’s blah blah blah. We have as much of it in this world as the SAD dieters. Same goes with pretending people don’t lose tons of weight while eating lots of carbs, because that’s how most people that lose weight do it!

What you do needs to be tailored to YOU! Just understand how it all works so you don’t then overreact when you do it. When you eat carbs (in normal amounts) your liver will reload glycogen, then your muscles will take everything they can get. Beyond that is when you start spilling over and anything that you can’t burn in real time for fuel is likely to store as fat.

You WILL see that on the scale! Won’t be fat, but the scale can’t tell the difference. Eating one normal meal here and there isn’t going to screw you up.

I do a Hybrid of Cyclic and Targeted Keto and have carbs pre/post workout and have had more fat loss and way better energy, and night and day better workouts than when I did standard keto for the previous 4yrs sticking to around the 20g. Carbs aren’t bad, they have their place. If you use them right, or even eat the crappy ones (sparingly) all hell isn’t going to break loose. We’re not that fragile.


Ive been following a strict keto diet plan for nearly 6 months now and even though my labs are great and I’m no longer diabetic, I’ve noticed a great deal of tiredness, sluggishness, and not wanting to do much in the afternoon and evenings. I wonder if diet and 0 or low carb intake has anything to do with that.


It’s not typical but we humans need different amount of carbs to function correctly so who knows?
Tiredness is so complex, I hear we here can’t guess the reason…
You can experiment if you want, the body often responds quickly to dietary and many other changes. Don’t you have some other good reason to feel not so great? Sleep, stress, activity, whatever? And if it’s the diet, it can be other things, not just the carbs.


Was a complete Thyroid panel part of those? I didn’t check my regularly, but my doc did on annuals. Noticed at one point my Thyroid values were terrible, litteraly on the line of being Hypo. Read about Keto tanking Thyroid levels, was iffy on that one, went back in my labs and sure enough it was just getting worse every year! Now with the carbs being cycled in it’s decently in normal range again. Some argue that it doesn’t matter with keto, I don’t buy into that. Fat or Carbs your Thyroid value is what’s driving your metabolic rate, which aside from burning up calories, has a ton to do with energy. Luckily my Doc’s cool so on top of them coming up with that change she gives me Armour Thyroid now to give it a little more bump, I’ll never fight burning up more! Definitely cured the world famous 2pm crash!

(Joey) #37

I’m with @lfod14 … if you haven’t obtained current info on your thyroid function, based on what you’ve described it is well worth having a look. If it’s hypothyroidism (under active), there are tried and true ways to address that situation.


Haven’t had my thyroid checked but just wondering if a strict keto diet has led any others to feel a lethargy that they hadn’t experienced before the diet change. As I said many times, weight was never an issue with me.

(Joey) #39

In directly addressing your question: No, I’ve had significantly more energy and drive since cutting out the carbs. Everyone’s different, but my response to carb-restriction is notunusual,


you can only take your carb limit up and see how ya do :slight_smile:
key to health, what foods you are eating that contain those carbs!

you might be undereating in your day easily to cause fatigue. what do you eat daily? just wondering :slight_smile: