Glycogen replenishment

(Dustin Cade) #1

@richard is there any information on how long the body takes to refill glycogen stores on a standard ketogenic diet? do we know if gluconeogenesis plays a role in this as well?

(Richard Morris) #2

Yup there was a Volek study into it, the body will preferentially feed the brain to stop you going into a coma, then refill the muscles so you can run away from the Sabre tooth tiger, then refill the liver in case you can’t find any food, then raise your blood glucose to it’s normal range.

(Jason Fletcher) #3

I know that Dr Jacob Wilson had something on this. Had 2 groups after a workout. the keto adapted group had a protien and fat shake and the other group carb and protein. Found that the 2 groups replenished glucose at same rate. Wish i remember were the study was.

(Dustin Cade) #4

does the body do this without raising insulin levels?

(Jason Fletcher) #5

Your body needs insulin to store and use the glucose. Without insulin you would starve like with type one diabetes and develop Ketoacidosis

(Dustin Cade) #6

what I mean is, diabetes is a raised level of insulin in the body, on a ketogenic diet we strive to keep insulin low… I’m just curious on glycogen stores being replenished could have a negative effect on keeping insulin at normal levels.

(Barbara Greenwood) #7

I had a Twitter conversation wit Ted Naiman (name drop!) a while back about liver glycogen storage. He said the amount stored by someone on low carb is not much different from high carb - the difference is the source. High carbers get it from diet, low carbers get it mainly from GNG.

Insulin is still needed, but not as much, because there aren’t the big surges of glucose to deal with after eating. It won’t peak as high and the average level will be lower. Much like blood glucose.

#8

The glucose generated by GNG to replace glycogen does not stimulate insulin as much as food-related sources of glucose because there are no signals from the gut to the pancreas. You may experience an increase is glucose levels in the ~2 hours following glycogen-depleting exercise. It is transient.

(Jason Fletcher) #9

Again i wish i had the study but once you have been on a keto diet for about 3 months. Your glycogen levels fill up in the liver. Your body then will use them when they are called for like what is needed for HIIT training or Power lifting. Most exercise beyond 80% of your VO2 Max. In type 2 diabetes the person is insulin resistant and they need a large amount of insulin to use and lower blood sugar. By going keto you are able to lower your need for insulin since your fuel source is fat and Ketones. Fasting lowers it even farther since you will not get a insulin response from food. When you work out or are scared to shit your adrenaline will elevate and your glycogen stores will be released into your blood and your insulin will rise. During a workout you will be more insulin sensitive and be better able to use glucose. Now if you are worried about to much GNG happening and causing your insulin to rise I would not because that is not the way GNG works. It is demand driven. Eating protein produces a insulin response and it depends on the amino acid profile of the protein and how much will determine how big of a impact on insulin. It is best to try to time your protein intake around your work out since your body needs the amino acids the most plus your insulin is up as it is. Eating fat right after a work out will be stored more efficiently then any other time as well because of a increase in insulin. If you are not counting grams of fat per day that you consume this timing could be critical.

#10

Is it this one? Unfortunately, the full text and pdf are not available yet. [Epub ahead of print] Here’s the abstract: doi: 10.1519/JSC.0000000000001935.

This guy finds it “Improbable” and “possibly biased”, but does provide a nice summary of the findings. http://sci-fit.net/2017/wilson-keto-analysis/

[edit] Ah, I see the Wilson study also includes Volek and D’Agostino in the credits. I would say they are trustworthy scientists.

(Victoria Mc Coy) #11

THAT is what I was worried about when I saw a glucose spike after adding exercise to my keto/fasting routine at ~3.5 months in, since for me the goal is to bring fasting insulin down and keep it down for weight loss, which is a priority for me with 80 lbs to lose. Thank you, Carol! (And thank you to the dudes and all admins for the great searchable info in the forums too!)