Gluconeogenesis and BMR

#1

These seem to be two of the major factors in what makes the ketogenic diet tick. As such, I am working on understanding both concepts better. I am familiar with the macro ratios. I know I need more fat than protein, and I cannot have more than 20g carbohydrates. I am getting better at finding the hidden sugars in food. I am staying in ketosis, even if I bust that 20 by 5 or so. The big hurdle right now is GNG. I am reading Keto Clarity, and if I understand what I am reading, it looks like too high of a protein ratio will kick GNG in, and metabolize protein to glucose. I am watching my BG, and it does seem to be a bit higher when I take in more protein than fat (I am still chasing the ‘more fat than protein’ monster) But, there have been a few resources that claim GNG is a constant rate. No amount of ‘extra protein’ will change the rate of GNG. This seems to be in direct contradiction to the book. Secondly. I know the conversion of protein to glucose is not a 1:1, the process is costly. I saw an estimate of 20% somewhere, but I am taking that with a grain of salt. It also makes me think though, perhaps both are trying to explain the same concept, just speaking different languages. (I am a database administrator, I have to interpret developers and business analysts all day. I know what can happen to points when the same science is spoken in different vernacular!)

My main question from all of this is… what has everyone done to learn about GNG? Are there specific web resources that explain the science? Can this variable GNG rate be proven? Why would one source interpret GNG so differently than the other? If there is a trusted source for this theory, I am all ears.

(John) #2

There are so few studies, especially good studies, dealing with keto that people seem to me to gravitate toward what makes the most sense for them, and use the info that supports it. There is some bias there, but the alternatives are to ignore it, or use info that contradicts your own experience.
My wife can eat 100g of carbs a day and be fine, I can only eat about 20g. Without getting too complex, many people think GNG is demand only while others think it can happen at any time. Personally I don’t know, but my personal experience is the latter; when I eat too much protein I stall, simple as that. I don’t really know how to reconcile that with it being GNG or some other part of this complex system.
To me it makes sense that if you take in protein and don’t use it for proteiny stuff that it will be likely to be converted.

Unfortunately there are no solid answers, and I think any that tried to fit itself to every person would be an incorrect one, nothing about my metabolic processes seemed normal, not sure why this one would be.

(Dany Bolduc) #3

The same is true for me. To keep my state of ketosis level, I cannot go over 1.2 gr/ kg LBM (+/- 0.2) … whenever I have a day over 1.5, I’m sure to drop the ketone … quite a bit.
But I regularly consume roughly 1.2 gr/kg and my ketone level don’t vary wildly.

#4

Moved this over to chat. I am still studying up, and I appreciate the replies. I am still keenly interested in others’ opinions on this. I have some testing to do with my protein levels, based on BMR/LBM. In the mean time, I’d like to know who all has bonafide proof of whether GNG is responsive/anecdotal, and variable rate, or constant rate and on-demand.