Game Changers Movie - documentary about diet and improved physical performance?


#21

I came straight to the ketogenic forums from the watching experience and got told off by my wife.

She said I was going back to my biases. I said Chis Kresser was debunking it. She doesn’t know Kresser. I said he is an acupuncturist and heard a laugh stop snort. So she said that I had to go and look from the other side and see if the vegans were debunking the debunking. I said, under my breath, that I can see a vortex forming. But my wife is the smart one in this partnership and I have never proved myself more right than her, ever, so I went adventuring in plant based news.

To their credit the vegan media had an immediate response. It was aimed at Joe Rogan and his diet and sponsorship of his show. They played the man, went after the messenger, ad hominem. So I have to go back later and see if they produce any interesting questions from their view point.

The thing I learned from my wife was to #exitecho, that is exit the echo chamber (Yes, we are in one, one, one, one… They can be good for bolstering support. But an echo chamber blinkers us from other potential information)

I will persist in watching the Game Changers, more for self examination and to test my own knowledge against what is presented. I also feel it can be disingenuous to comment too much because my lifestyle, hence me, feels threatened, but not give a differing point of view a hearing.

@RobC great share. Chris Kresser is very thorough. I am amazed that your response was within 3 minutes of me reigniting this topic. Was it serendipity? I fell asleep listening to Kresser work through the film last night, so will re-listen today. :slightly_smiling_face:


#22

Watched to movie, I yelled “bull” multiple times :wink:
I watched the podcast yesterday, always love some Chris Kresser.
It’s nice to know that we have a great podcast to share with those who actually believe this movie…


#23

If you’re getting your information from Joe Rogan y’all got problems


#24

We’re getting information from Chris, Joe’s just asking the questions…


(Robert C) #25

(Jack Bennett) #26

I was debating with a college friend (vegetarian) on FB and he mentioned how Joe was paid by the meat industry. I asked for proof or evidence… all we found was an instance where an earlier (vegan) guest accused him of this. Not evidence!


#27

I think Dr. Kahn pointed out that Joe was sponsored by Butcher Box.

Direct from plant-biased news:

“I admire Joe Rogan for his energy and his success,” Dr. [Vegan] told Mitchell. "He looks older than his age. He is funded by meat companies on his podcast; they’re his number one sponsor.

Joe mentioned in the recent Kresser podcast why he invited a prominent vegan doctor on the podcast. It didn’t go to plan.


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #28

“Echo chamber”? I think not.

I was minding my own business, watching physics videos, and some random videos on the ketogenic diet popped up, suggested by the YouTube algorithm. So I was sucked into the keto world by random lectures on YouTube by people who backed up every assertion they made with data from randomized controlled studies. Even Dr. Lustig at his most polemical against fructose backs up every crazy-sounding assertion with solid data. It scared the . . . sugar . . . out of me. The one emotion-driven lecture that got my attention at that point was Dr. Attia’s TED talk, which introduced me to the notion that perhaps it wasn’t that obesity caused diabetes, but that they were both caused by the same thing. He presented no data, because he was recounting an experience he’d had, but Dr. Hallberg’s TED talk on her clinical experience with diabetics presented quite a bit of data. Even the books written by Gary Taubes and Nina Teicholz—two journalists who aren’t even scientists, for heaven’s sake—contain an intimidating amount of references to the scholarly literature. They might as well be textbooks.

I also clicked on some random videos about plant-based diets, also suggested by the YouTube algorithm. Every such talk I checked out was long on emotional manipulation and short on actual data. I gave up in disgust when one speaker, a prominent vegan, stated to his audience that eating red meat is what causes diabetes. The difference between them and the keto lecturers was that they wanted people to believe them on their authority as doctors, whereas the keto people all say, “Don’t believe me because I say so, check out this evidence.”

Now, there may be some selection bias at work in the YouTube algorithm, but to me, it’s telling that eighteen out of twenty random videos about the ketogenic diet contain persuasive scientific evidence, whereas the one or two out of twenty random videos on the vegan diet that bother to present evidence in the first place present weak, inconsistent, and ambiguous data as solid fact.

So “echo chamber”? You decide.


(Robert C) #29

Butcherbox would be one of the best in terms of ethically treating animals. Vegans would do well to aim their criticisms in far worse situations.


#30

True @RobC. I think they were scratching around for content to distract from the dismantling of some of the claims made.


#31

My decision is that the ketogenic forums are an echo chamber. That have to be just by their existence. There are probably keto-vegans around here as well.

I’m still thinking about an answer to the coffee and caffeine hanging question. I recently learnt more about adenosine, but haven’t yet puzzled it out.


(Jack Bennett) #32

Ha! I figured it would be something like that. If that counts as “money from the meat industry” … I don’t know what to tell you.


(Robert C) #33

BTW - almost all of the US supports the meat industry.


(Jack Bennett) #34

The accusations of sponsorship by the meat industry are misguided. It’s more like a meeting of minds. He already liked paleo, hunting, meat, etc.

I would imagine that Joe sees a win-win from sponsorship from Butcher Box, and agrees with their business model (grass fed, humanely raised meats). Can you imagine them exercising editorial control over his podcast? Not likely.


#35

Ok, it took over a day, but I listened to the whole podcast. Chris Kresser is very thorough and so dismayed at the gap between the claims in the film and the published science.

It was a lot easier to listen to the podcast than to watch the film. I have to watch the rest of the film now.

Plant biased news is focussing on the preceding Joe Rogan interview with Louie Psihoyos


(Peter) #36

Nobody seems to have any editorial control or direction over his show, including himself, which is a right shame.


#37

One of the main vegan comeback responses in criticism of monocrops is that they say the bulk of them are produced to feed livestock. Not sure about the accuracy of that statement but it’s the only reasonable argument I’ve heard come from the vegan camp so far, all the rest is just hysterics and namecalling.


(Troy) #38

Have not watched it yet
Maybe this was already posted

I’m Too busy cooking bacon right now
No joke🙂

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#39

:star::star:


#40

:star::star::star::star: