Gallbladder removed


(Rockie Spinks) #1

I don’t have a gallbladder. I’ve been on the Keto Diet for a month and still not in Ketosis. I can’t afford Gall bladder supplements at $100.00 a bottle. Is there something else I can do to get things going?


(Kathy Timmons) #2

Hi Rockie,

Welcome to the Keto WOE. Getting into ketosis is different for every person. I had my gallbladder removed 25 or 30 years ago and have been keto since March 2018. I have never used any gallbladder supplements. I have never checked my urine or done the glucose testing (except by Dr appt) and came to keto with many health problems. I have lost 80 pounds and am 13 from “goal”. I think we all come with different health problems and some of us take longer to start “healing”.

My suggestion is to KCKO-keep your carbs below 20 and eat fat. Cut out snacking and skip breakfast. If you eat enough fat you won’t be hungry and won’t even think about snacking! Measure your body and do that every month or so. The scales don’t move a lot of the time but our bodies are healing.

HTH!


#3

Ketosis is driven by a restriction of carbs. I don’t think lack of a gall bladder would change that. Why do you think you’re not in ketosis?

If you have kept net carbs under 20 for a month, you should have been in ketosis since the 2nd or 3rd day.


#4

Not having a gallbladder has no effect on you getting into ketosis, if you don’t eat the carbs you’ll get there. The difference is how you’ll deal with more fat, and even then unless you’re needlessly getting stupid with fat consumption (which many do) it really shouldn’t be a huge deal.

Not sure what you’re looking at, but they don’t even remotely cost that!


#5

No gallbladder here. No gall bladder substitutes either. It took me maybe 5 days to get into ketosis. Things like nuts and too much cream could throw me out. You have to track your macros and make sure the carbs are under 20g/day. I used cronometer.com - its free.


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #6

This is a metabolic impossibility. You either have not been on a keto diet for a month or yes you are in ketosis. Please tell us exactly what you’re eating. Are you measuring ketones?


(Central Florida Bob ) #7

I hate to say “me too”, so I’ll make it longer. :wink:

I had my gall bladder out four years ago, after one year on keto. I can eat anything I want, but extreme amounts of fat, like over 80% of calories in a meal, may go through undigested. I’ve never taken any ox bile or any other supplements. Remember, you still have bile. The liver secretes it, the gall bladder just stores it until the bile is demanded and then adds it to the intestinal load.

And as @amwassil says, after a month, you’re either not keeping your carbs low enough or you’re in ketosis.


(Rockie Spinks) #8

Ok, I’ll be honest. I have lost 11lbs, The reason I don’t think I am in Ketosis is this time around I haven’t had the keto flu. Also I have used those keto strips to diagnose if I am in ketosis. They say No. I have 3 eggs and 6 slices of bacon early afternoon and around 4:00 I have a salad. Lettuce, spinach, tomato, chicken or bacon, olives-10 or so, cucumber and about 4-5 tbs. Of classic ranch dressing. No snacks. About 6 cups of Coffee per day I do use heavy whipping cream for creamer. I am thinking I am losing weight just by not as much calories as I used to eat. I am a big eater. On this diet, I get really hungry. I am probably not hungry, just used to eating a lot more. There you go. Analyze that. I don’t see more than 20 carbs in that.


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #9

Are you actually weighing/measuring carbs or just guessing? Even if you’re eating on ave sub-20 grams, you may be one of those folks with insulin resistance that requires even lower carbs, or even zero carbs. Try eliminating the salad and the ranch dressing for a couple weeks to see what happens. Instead of chicken try salmon and/or herring.

Yes, if you’re only eating what you describe, you’re not eating enough. So I think you probably are really hungry not just because you’re used to eating more. You’re not eating enough fat, especially sat fat. CICO works for awhile but ultimately fails because very few folks have the will power to live on a starvation diet.

If you’re using pee stix to measure ketones be advised that they measure only ketones that get excreted in urine, which may or may not indicate your general level of ketosis. If you’re using them efficiently, then few get excreted. Some folks experience carb withdrawal (aka ‘keto flu’) and many do not. Using that as a sign of ketosis is nonsense.


#10

I am with Michael… Keto flu isn’t mandatory, I never had it, pee sticks aren’t reliable but our ketosis carb limits vary a bit.

If you are hungry, eat. I was a big eater myself, I do need a certain amount of calories to get satiated but not nearly as much as on a worse diet (in my case, carbier or using the wrong type of food items even if they are extreme low-carb) and volume has nothing to do with it, in my case, at least. As far as I know, there are volume eaters too… Many people lower the amount of food without being hungrier, often in the contrary.
You shouldn’t be hungry on keto. Maybe some people can’t avoid that while losing, I can imagine almost anything at this point but it’s not typical for sure. Eat more fat or protein, whatever works for you (the kind that actually satiates you), timing may matter as well…
Maybe you eat too little protein, it’s hard to say without amounts and stats…


#11

What kind of Ranch Dressing? That might be the culprit. Make that yourself because all the prepared supermarket foods have carbs in them in one form or another.


(Ideom) #12

I think this is right on. And the urine strips for ketones are notoriously unreliable, and even if they work “pretty well” they are not showing you your blood level of ketones, which is the real deal.

I had my gallbladder removed a good while ago. Never really a problem; the only thing would be eating a LOT of fat, like a kilogram or multiple pounds of it at one sitting, or drinking a half liter or more of olive oil. The liver’s steady but relatively slow bile secretion cannot keep up, so some of that fat goes all the way though undigested.

I don’t think bile production or storage (essentially no storage without the gallbladder) means ketosis or not. Unless you’re really in some type of distress that relates to low bile levels, I think gall bladder supplements are a waste of money and time.


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #13

If you are eating under 20 grams of carbohydrate a day, and you are still breathing, you are almost certainly in ketosis. In the absence of dietary carbohydrate, the liver produces the small amount of glucose the body actually needs, plus ketone bodies to feel all the organs that can use them (the brain and the heart do particularly well on ketones).

None of the ways of measuring ketones is entirely satisfactory. The urine strips and breath meters are measuring ketones that are being wasted, and even a blood meter is only measuring circulating ketones; it cannot measure the actual amount your liver is producing and how much the rest of your body is actually using. Not only that, but there are inherent inaccuracies in the meters sold for home use, so they can only give you a rough idea anyway. While measuring can be useful, it is not truly necessary.

The gall bladder stores bile, it does not produce it. You can certainly do fine on a ketogenic diet without a gall bladder. Some people on these forums report that they have to be a bit careful with how much fat they eat at any given time, while others say they notice no difference. Bile salts may or may not be necessary or helpful in your case. You can experiment to find out. But whatever it is that makes you think you are not in ketosis is probably unrelated to your lack of a gall bladder.

That just means that you’ve kept your salt intake high enough to prevent symptoms of low sodium.

And the urine strips are notoriously inaccurate, so don’t worry.

That’s not how it should work. In the absence of a high level of insulin in your blood all the time, your appetite hormones are free to work properly. As long as you are not intentionally limiting how much food you eat, which can cause problems, you can safely let your appetite guide you to the proper quantity of food. Some days, you are going to want a lot more, some days a lot less, so just go with what your body is telling you. Eat to satisfy your hunger.

If you are not losing fat fast enough to suit you, that is a different story. Fat loss does not happen in a linear manner, and the reading on your scale can be confused, if you put on lean tissue while losing fat. Use the fit of your clothing as another indicator of progress. I would suggest giving your keto diet another month or so before worrying about whether it’s working or not. If at that point you are still not seeing the results you were hoping for, we can then coach you and give you ideas to try. Many women find that the first month or two on a ketogenic diet is given over to hormonal re-regulation, before any fat loss starts, and that could be what is going on with you. It might help to think of keto as a long-term healthy-eating strategy, rather than a short-term weight-loss diet.


(Rockie Spinks) #14

Clasic. 2 Grams of carbs per tbls and I think. 1 added sugar. I use about 4 tbls.


(Khara) #15

I used to do this too. 6-8 cups even. At 6 cups though with the amount of cream I use in a 12-16 oz coffee, it could be 60-90 grams of fat per day just from heavy cream. Because I was having so much fat in liquid form, I wasn’t as hungry for real food and as a result I ate too little. It was a pretty lazy way to be keto. I relied too heavily on the fat in my coffee instead of on real food. This doesn’t have much to do with your original question but it stood out to me in your post.

For “keto flu”, I got it the first time but not the 2nd time that I went keto. The key was salt, like has already been mentioned. Since it was my second time around I naturally just used more salt and so the symptoms weren’t an issue. Maybe you haven’t realized it but are doing the same.


#16

People informed me here never to trust labels. They said that they fudge the numbers in order to sell their products. But it really is a problem to make everything yourself from scratch so you know what is in it.


(Polly) #17

I find I prefer making almost everything I eat from basic ingredients. It works for me 95% of the time. Eating out is only very occasionally at the moment, but that is when I have a problem.


#18

@Polly1
I have a problem with my own cooking. I am totally BORED with it and I am generally not a very good cook nor very imaginative and creative, I guess. But it definitely is safer.