I so agree with Anthony! Thanks for this Paul, just reaffirmed what I want to do, and thank you to @Bellyman for the thread. I hadn’t read all of it, but doing that now
I read a lot a few years ago about women eating more to weigh less, but it wasn’t keto, and they talked a lot about their doing the “cutting” phase. I can’t imagine having to do that now that I know about keto, just eliminate the carbs if the fat is all I need for fuel. I and can assure anyone reading this, I have way more energy, and strength than I had before using “carbs” for my energy source, and of course storing fat
somewhere around 4 years of keto, I should look at when I started here to know for sure, because this forum got me onto keto when I diagnosed with T2 Diabetes
I’m with you as well Brian as I need some muscle for my skinny ole frame So I’ll go and read more of the thread now, thank you again for a great topic!!
Ok in another post I read it was .8-10 g per kg of weight. Since I started Keto I’ve been aiming for .8g per pound of weight. That’s a lot different than per kg of weight.
Which is it? Lb or kg?
If aiming for 1g per, at 150 lbs would it be per pound so 150g of protein? Or would it be 76g of protein if per kg? (I’ve never been able to reach 150g, the highest I’ve ever reached was about 128g.)
1g per pound or kg, both may work, I consider it best in-between but it’s individual. 1g per pound probably won’t be used up, it may be okay to make sure it will be enough even some won’t get absorbed - and some people do use up more than others… I can understand wanting to be safe I heard about people who gained muscle just fine with 1g/kg, I am all for 1.5-2g/kg (for lean body mass) myself but I never could eat that little, no matter my actual diet. Fatty animal protein (but plant protein too) always had an irresistible pull on me.
I reset MFP for my macro goals, but if closest I could get as a free member is 105 grams, for my present weight of 109. I gain a couple lbs in the last couple weeks with not enough exercise, and lots of fat, I think that’s why. I doubt it’s muscle growth since no lifting at all.
So if it’s 1 g per lb of weight, I wonder how much fat we should be getting per lb? I never saw that info anywhere, and I just take what’s left and minus, or plus the fat grams, at least that’s on Myfitnesspal. That’s the easiest app I’ve ever found, maybe because I’m used to it. I don’t worry about calories any longer unless I see I’m just not eating enough food when I’m being active on a regular basis.
Feedback always welcome, especially interested in others macros if you wouldn’t mind sharing them, if you are successfully building muscle now, or, have in the past, either way it might help me, Denise
PS I’m going in the a.m. and start my workout, but had some health issues flare up last 2 days. Gym just opened yesterday, but I just walked to make sure I felt good enough to tackle weights
I had this almost exactly the 3 years I was working out at a gym at my previous address. I like how you have it in writing though because I can print this out @Wnajegon
What do your work-outs look like now?
I did a little over an hour walk/hike this a.m. in the hills of my neighborhood. I was about to start some dumbells I have here at home, just Set of 5 lb’rs as I pushed these up a couple of times and I knew I could do 10, maybe 12 reps with those.
Funny how I can do the machines that sort of mimic the “free-weight lifting” at higher weights, but I’ll just listen to my body, instead of whats “written” on the machines, or the free weights
I like the smith machine for my squats, or just dumbells if that’s all I can get hold of. Some days I’ll just walk/hike up-hill 30 min. and then back home like today, because I want to start with an upper body workout tomorrow at my gym. Thank you for you input especially because those are all things I’m familiar with for one thing.
denise
Sorry for the delay. I was on vacation and staying off social media.
I’ve been listening to a podcast called Mind Pump about strength training. They are not keto, but they promote eating 1 g of protein per pound of ideal body weight. They use this number because it is easy to remember and because a lot of people have a hard time getting enough protein, so if they can get close to the 1g/lb goal that is probably good enough.
I started doing this earlier this year when I started using some of their workout programs. I’ve noticed some interesting changes. The biggest are skin and hair. I had my last period almost a year ago. Soon afterwards my hair (on my body and my head) pretty much stopped growing. I only had to shave my legs about once every week or so and after getting my hair cut short, it didn’t seem to grow afterwards. I feel like my skin is looking healthier.
Whereas previously, I was usually eating 2mad, in order to get the recommended amount of protein, I had to up to 3mad. This put me on a bit of a reverse diet. I hadn’t tracked my food for years, but I tracked myself for a week and found I had been undereating. By adding that third meal, I had upped my calories to approximated 1500 calories a day. Still low according to the Mind Pump guys.
About a month into the diet change, my hair and nails started growing like gangbusters. I have to shave my legs every few days now (annoying, but healthier than the alternative ). Every time I turn around, I have to clip my fingernails. My hair is much fuller and growing quickly. It is a very noticeable change. All of this without using collagen (which I tried but couldn’t remember to keep taking )
It’s possible it is just eating more in general, but the thing I added was protein/meat. Carbs stayed the same, so I think it is the increase in protein that has improved hair, skin, and nails.
I also noticed my recovery after working out has improved. That’s probably because of eating more in general.
I’ve been watching a lot of Dr. Mike Israetel videos with my spousal critter lately, because we like his puerile sense of humor. He keeps saying that for strength (in the power-lifter sense of the word: increasing your one-rep maximum that you can lift) very low reps are needed, meaning like 3 to 5 reps to fatigue, but that for hypertrophy (growth/bodybuilding) anything from 6 to 30 is good. Since almost no one actually does competitive power-lifting (it’s a sport, not a fitness method), we don’t need to worry about one-rep strength.
That’s a HUGE training range! On the one hand, that’s good news, because it suggests you don’t have to have exactly the right weight to fatigue at 9 or 10 reps. You can get away with fewer different weights and adapt them to your routine. Also, lighter weights are going to be easier on your joints, so being able to get benefit from fatigue at 20 reps or so is less risky than lifting heavy.
On the other hand, it’s mentioned that it’s harder to judge when you are actually almost-but-not-quite fatigued when lifting lighter. It seems to be generally agreed that you don’t have to go ABSOLUTELY to fatigue; that gains will still occur if you stop with one or two “reps in reserve.” But if you think you could have done only two more but you misjudge and in reality you could have done five more if you really focused, you’re probably cheating yourself out of the benefits, at least somewhat.
Another interesting fact is that it seems you don’t need to work out three times per week. Dr. Mike and others I’ve heard/read suggest that one or two days per muscle is enough each week. If you did squats or deadlifts, pushups and bent-over dumbbell rows one day and calf-raises, overhead dumbbell press, dips or lat pulldowns and maybe lateral raises on another day, that would be a fairly whole-body workout that doesn’t take a huge amount of time.
They also seem too agree that as you get older (like Kamala Harris, I’ll be turning 60 before the end of this year; there’s a trivial fact I’ve been repeating a lot lately since it’s in the news), you need more recovery time, so lifting/exercising TOO many days a week may not be a great idea. Probably one or two days a week should be rest days, without any major physical efforts.
100%. It is not easy to eat 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight. If you weigh 160 lbs, that is 160 grams of protein spread throughout the day. I also shoot for this goal. It means that I will also take a protein drink (25-30 grams) 1x-2x per day to get me close to this level. I try to get 40 grams per meal (120 grams), then the rest in supplement form. I exercise on a regular basis, 3x-4x per week or more. This level of protein has helped with a variety of things. Most notably, muscle recovery is substantially reduced, which allows me to work out with greater loads.
I am very bad at this for sure. My example will be the opposite misjudgement but shows how unrealiable my guess is: All goes well, it’s still easy - and 2 reps later I just can’t do any more. I can surprise myself like this. I probably would misjudge it in the other direction too especially that maybe my muscle can do it but my mind (and hunger as I tend to lift just before lunch, my first meal and I can be hungry at that time, nothing special if I don’t exercise but if I do, it is tough, it weakens me both physically and mentally. yeah I try to do my workout earlier but I fail. keep trying, of course)…? So I just do until I can (or feel safe with certain exercises where I need to be able to lift the weight and put it down instead of dropping it on my head or something). It doesn’t mean I do it until failure, sometimes my mental strength run out earlier - or I do judge I must be close and don’t wanna do it anymore.
I wouldn’t want many reps anyway as I find it boring and less fun than using bigger weights My joints are fine so I keep my 6-12 reps.
Oh. That’s good news as I never could do more than 2 full body workouts… I planned to go up to 3, well I don’t say I won’t, my volume is tiny and I am a careful lazy one, I surely could need more work
Depends on the person. It’s borderline impossible for me for ideal body weight as I just starve with so little… My full body weight with lots of extra fat would be easier (I could do it in one meal if I needed, 160g protein for a meal isn’t really anything special to many including me. I don’t often do that for multiple reasons but it seems easy enough. but it’s my limit while some people can eat a ton more. probably not every day though…) and I still would have room for much, much more (using a second meal)…
But I don’t think everyone should force 1g/lbs as it’s a bit unnecessarily much for nearly everyone, still fine as a target if one can eat enough protein but if not and it’s really a big problem, a little less probably works better, all considered.
It’s unfortunate and a bit strange that some people need to work for their minimal or ideal protein intake and others need to minimize protein as much as possible without huge problems (like losing sanity or starving or something)… But it’s how people are. I am actually fine, my protein intake is always okay for my body, the problems come from the side effects of eating more protein than strictly necessary. But I think I can solve it. It took some training to learn to like really lean meat (like 5%? I don’t know but I eat quite lean pork as my main meat option) but it seems I did it. I surely have good macros since days and even my protein intake went lower I am sure (almost sure. I never can guess my macros). So double yay. Or triple as I am not as interested in eating as before (it was too much before). Lean meat is great: I have a chance not to overeat fat and I can’t overeat the lean meat itself. But it’s me, of course some people would just undereat fat like this.
One of the best strength training programs out there is the 80/20 Powerlifting. Google it. It’s done 5x per week with one weight exercise. I personally did this program for 4 months, and my 1x rep for the trap bar increased to 2.5x my body weight. Muscles were never sore and never fatigued. Going to fatigue is old school. Yes, at the very beginning of any program you may get fatigued, but always leave 1 or 2 reps in the tank. Fine when you are young, say under 50, but if over 50, I personally would not recommend it unless your form is absolutely perfect. Even if it is, most who still lift this way will eventually end up injured. Think rotator cuff or, worse, a torn quad or hamstring. These injuries will stop you for months. The benefits do not outweigh the risk of injury over the age of 50, IMHO.
In my case, I’d be pushing 200g of protein, and that would probably equate to about 2.5 pounds of ground beef. That’s a lot, even for me. I know I’d probably be eating other things (eggs, for example) but that would take an effort on my part to eat that much.
Wow, you can eat! I find myself really quite stuffed at even 1 pound of ground beef. 160 grams of protein would be twice that.
As I read through the comments, though, I am starting to wonder if I’m reading them right. When you say “160 grams of protein”, are you meaning “160 grams of meat”? 160 grams of meat is pretty easy to do, that’s like a 1/3 pound hamburger patty.
Anyway, I wondered… (Wouldn’t be the first time I messed somethin’ up, either. LOL! )
Nonsense. Are you saying you could eat 2 1/2 pounds of ground beef in one sitting? or a 2 lb rib eye in one sitting? and “but it seems easy enough.” So have you done it or not?
Bob M., you appear to like seafood! LOL!! I couldn’t do it that way, I’d be gagging on it till the end. While I like some good fish from time to time, it’s not something I like to do too much of.
I agree, the top round is probably one of the more densely packed options for protein. Still, it is a significant amount of food. I wouldn’t naturally want to eat quite that much (quantity). Interesting poking around with the macros, though. It’s good to do that on occasion to refresh the memory.
I can. Nothing like some people out there but I am a short woman…
Beef is special, it’s highly satiating, at least I had a meal of 600g beef and a yolk (just because a day without egg just won’t do :P) and it kept me perfectly satiated for a day!
But I rarely eat beef. And I do eat eggs and dairy. At the moment I go to mostly meat as that keeps my macros the tiniest but I still have some other stuff.
When I say protein, I mean protein. I often eat 1-1.5 pounds of meat, I never skip eggs and some dairy… It adds up very easily My body refuses to accept anything below 130g protein (I just get hungry at midnight so I have to eat more) so that is my goal but I am usually above that. Just a bit if I am good! Eating mostly meat (and not the kinds triggering overeating) should help with it.
160g meat is a few bites, give me a pound at least for lunch with some eggs and cheese!
No, I merely had 150g protein in one sitting while I tried to eat as little as possible as it’s my general attitude since 1.5 decades. Protein, not just meat. I don’t do a meat only diet. ~600g meat is easy (sometimes or the right kind of meat), add several eggs and a bunch of protein rich dairy… I won’t calculate it now but it’s easy on some days. Surely doing it each and every day would be different as I need to skip lunch to ensure it. Or just eat longer and use chicken. I can eat a lot of chicken on top of anything as it doesn’t satiate me.
Some people eat that much meat though. Not me as I almost never ate much meat until a few years ago and my carnivore times started with 0.25-0.5 pounds of meat per day (and too high protein, of course, I always overdid protein a tiny bit, even with zero meat as why would I need any meat for that?).
I did 150g for sure, I don’t remember 160g but it must be super easy. I often keep myself BACK when I get close…
I can eat way more meat if I use fattier meat due to my tastes (and my weirdness regarding satiation, maybe. extra fat doesn’t satiate me). I never can overeat lean meat but 1000g pork shoulder in 2 sittings, ouch, I did that multiple times despite not wanting to (of course I ate my several eggs and dairy too, it wasn’t lately when I am low at those). But I just couldn’t stop…
I am careful with pork shoulder now.
(Interestingly, it never happens with other fatty pork cuts, only shoulder. I don’t even like shoulder so much. It’s just triggering.)
I only can eat 1kg meat in one sitting using chicken (when hungry. or maybe because it was a very good chicken but accidentally I always was hungry for my OMAD dinner. I can’t eat that much for lunch under normal circumstances). I don’t do that. I pair some chicken with some red meat every time if possible.
My tracked daily protein intake record (while definitely not trying to do it… it just happened) is around 250g. I slow down around 200g and stop around 250g as far as I can tell but as I really try to stay much lower, I have little data. But it seems so. I don’t slow down after 200g fat, sadly and my satiation is nice and not too serious even after 200g protein and 260g fat. Surplus is easy. Deficit is near impossible. BUT I don’t need a lot (and my serious overeating times possibly always will have a lingering effect).
Oh, that’s not even a huge amount. At some point doing on/off carnivore (getting used to eating meat) I noticed that when I am hungry and willing to eat much meat, ~21oz is just my amount for a very good (not too small, not too big) meal! Of course, not alone… But that’s about it for the day if it’s some satiating red meat.
Our granddaughter, sometime in her early teens, proudly announced that we’re old, and old people don’t eat so much. And as humorous as that sounded at the time, there is an element of truth to it, at least for us. Neither of us can pack away the quantities we used to.
I remember a day when I could do 3 or 4 hamburgers, a half dozen hotdogs, and all of the typical picnic food that went with, including a half dozen desserts. An all-you-can-eat buffet was highly desirable. That desirability kinda waxed old while I wasn’t paying attention. Anymore, I find myself wanting the meat, not the danged bun, just the meat! Instead of a bun, I’ll often put a nice couple o’ slabs of cheddar cheese. And on top? A couple of sunny-side-up eggs! Those yolks are like gravy… tasty, tasty, gravy. I eat it with a knife and fork. LOL!!
To some extent, all of that might be good. I don’t generally want the crap food all that much anymore. When I’m hungry, I generally want meat. The carby stuff just doesn’t satisfy me even when I give in and have some. It doesn’t generally taste as good as I think I remember either.
I didn’t have this on my on/off keto lifestyle… I don’t often had a carby day (my fallback was still quite low-carb) but I enjoyed it every time.
And then carnivore came and changed a lot of things. I truly don’t want carby food now, well with some exceptions but even then, usually a tiny amount goes a long way and then I want my normal food back! Right now I eat whatever I fancy and I am super close to carnivore. My carni food is the best! I just have teeny tiny extras here and there. Not even because I want them but they are around and nice and mostly harmless and I know I would feel restricted to say no… But it’s after my carbier summer (fruits!), I will have proper carni times soon.
Changes took time but I never needed a noticeable amount of willpower and now I can enjoy the result!
My very very few carby favs taste great as ever but the rest… Most of my old beloved vegs? Yuck. Not for me. Surreal. Trying out carnivore, if I need to say it concise, was surreal. And it kept being that.