Gabe's - "eat more fat newbies" post and videos - Epiphany moment for me

(Give me bacon, or give me death.) #41

FTFY. As we all know, intentional caloric deficit is the wrong lever to use on the body, if permanent fat loss is the goal. Shifting hormonal balance by altering nutrient quality is the real lever.

My understanding is that an insulin level that permits the mobilisation of excess stored fat implies a carbohydrate intake low enough to shift the insulin/glucagon ratio towards stimulating gluconeogenesis and ketogenesis. What am I missing?


For people with normal insulin levels and ratios there can be maintenance or even weifht loss after removing the most high glycemic foods. I can’t do it though.

(Give me bacon, or give me death.) #43

I had a long chat with Dr. Phinney at Ketofest, and he was saying—assuming that I’m passing it on correctly—that the thinking is starting to be that inflammation is the root cause of obesity, diabetes, etc. It hasn’t been shown, but it seems to be the hypothesis that is garnering a lot of attention at the moment.


Yes, I liked @siobhan 's presentation about the immune system as a cause of chronically elevated insulin levels leading to long term problems. And we know there can be a lot of different sources of inflammatory substances in the diet, like PUFAs and other things that certain people can’t tolerate at the gut barrier, like grains for example.

The inflammatory cytokines have a huge influence on metabolism - as they should for acute infection or damage - but being in a perpetual state of high alert is unhealthy.

(Karen) #45

Richard Morris talks about calorie restriction in insulin sensitive people on the Keto woman podcast recently. I found it interesting. I am relatively insulin sensitive, so I may be able to calorie reduce within ketogenic parameters to lose weight.

(Gabe “No Dogma, Only Science Please!” ) #46

Just saw this now – you should have tagged me, @ArtMeursault!

There’s lots to say, but I think it’s all already been said. Love this thread!

(Full Metal Keto) #47

@PaulL Don’t get me wrong Paul. Eating less fat creates a calorie deficit. If you’re stuffing yourself with keto food you can put on weight. My son has gained about 6-7 lbs. since he started. All in all keto makes eating less easier but it’s not something that comes to everyone automatically as I have read so much here. I am talking about eating a bit less fat that your daily caloric requirements if you have fat to get rid of. Not a CICO perspective.

But if you’re doing lazy keto that can work to a point but I completely plateaued for a couple of months without feeling like I was overeating. It’s possible to eat too much of nutritionally dense food without feeling like you’re overeating. If you’re eating more than you can use it will be stored. I don’t intentionally cut calories, but actually find it hard to eat enough doing TMAD to get to where Cronometer projects my caloric needs to be. I’m generally feeling fine and not trying to limit calories, it’s natural. But if I chose to eat nuts, HWC and more cheese I can easily meet that caloric number the app says I need. But I don’t.

Dr. Phinney also cautions against some of the normally accepted keto habits like fat slathering, adding extra fat for the sake of consuming more can cause you to stop loosing. Pouring oils and butter too liberally, eating fat bombs when you don’t really need the extra fat etc. You can talk about it from a different perspective with different wording but it’s essentially the same, Eat too much you stay the same or gain, eat a bit less than you need and access body fat and encourage more protein recycling through autophagy during your 16-18 hours of not eating daily.

Maybe I have it wrong, I don’t know because I am not an expert. :cowboy_hat_face:

(Give me bacon, or give me death.) #48

Of course losing fat involves eating less than one expends. My point was more about the direction in which causality runs. Getting the hormones right leads to the caloric deficit, not the other way around. Merely cutting calories is not nearly so effective, because there are other metabolic benefits to eating the proper human diet. For one thing, the proper human diet targets fat loss, as opposed to muscle tissue loss or decreased bone density.

(Full Metal Keto) #49

What about Dr. Fung, fasting for reversal of diabetes (hormone corrections through caloric elimination)?

I totally agree and don’t intentionally cut calories, it’s a natural effect from ketosis as you said earlier.

I think it’s easy to get wrapped up in science and knowledge of keto to the point where you’re paying more attention to that than what’s actually happening in your personal experience and trying to apply that knowledge. N=1 It’s easy to think, well I’m doing the right thing so I’ll just not focus on lowering body fat more and be happy with the NSV’s, which are great.

But in my experience just trusting the process has brought mixed results. Yes my health has drastically improved and I feel much better. I have lost weight but not enough. I assume you and I are similar in that way but you don’t have an accountability thread that I know of so your experience is scattered around the forum.

You are super knowledgeable about the science and wording of matters KETO and I have great respect for the amount of time and study you have put in. I wish that I knew more of your personal experience and how this knowledge has worked for you personally. I think you would have a fascinating accountability thread. :cowboy_hat_face:

(Art ) #50

I am seeing that in research I am finding with Afib by the way - CRT, IL-6 and other blood inflammatory markers as precursors to Afib events but given many Afibs begin during sleep it is highly possible that sleep apnea and hypoxia are the root cause as they increase CRT et al.