Future of meat + Carnivore health benefits = autocannibalism?

conversationstarters
#1

Test tube protein can be grown from muscle stem cells.
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Deep diving research into immune mediated disease indicates that a meat based diet is an effective (allergen) elimination diet
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Plants no longer get a ‘free ride’ as benign in our plant based diet world as research into human negative reactions to plant chemicals emerge
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Ketogenic eating is sustainable and good for some humans, at least better than the dietary guesses of the past 70 years.

I looked at the discussion threads about lab grown meat. One did allude to the 1970s film Soylent Green that predicted the nutritional and dietary dystopia of New York in 2022.

The imagination is fired up when weaving these threads together and fuelled by an as yet verified (by me) comment that the optimal nutritional amino acid ratio for humans is found in humans.

Are we looking at future protein and fats sources (ketogenic food sources) being synthesised from the most prolific, some would say abundant, source on the planet; human stem cells?

Has this extended thinking been discussed? Too soon?

(charlie3) #2

Animal based foods aren’t going anywhere. A high percentage of all land on the planet suitable for producing food for human consumption is only useable for animal feed. If all the farm animals disappeared 100’s of millions of acres would go out of production and 100’s of millions of peoplee would starve. My hunch is, if everybody in America wanted to eat carnivore, American agriculture could meet the demand but there might not be any commodities available for export and animal based foods would probably cost more.

The synthetic meat is for the vegans, right?

#3

I think aiming for vegetarians is the start point suggestion. A way to get edible protein from skeletal muscle without killing the animal. Like we eat eggs or butter. Vegans may still ethically object, or, at least get really confused.

('Jackie P') #4

Not wishing to be nasty to anyone, but the idea of a confused vegan made me chuckle🤣

#5

Talking to people (in person conversation) more thoughts were cast further toward an idea of auto-cannibalism.

It’s not really that shocking. There are plenty of references in forum posts. Metabolising body fat is a form of it. The ketogenic diet potentiates it by lowering insulin and allowing a predominant glucagonic catabolic state.

Maybe catabolism is more accurate than cannibalism.

But the thought cast went to a discussion of the idea of growing one’s own meat from one’s own muscle biopsies and one’s own stem cells at home. A possibly perfect meat protein source?

We even went further, holding firm to the person as a battery storage idea, that we readily use our stored energy compartments of glycogen or body fat, that growing meat from our own muscle is an extension of that.

It could be applied to long distance space travel, or surviving on Mars. All dependent on making the inputs to the process highly efficient.

It certainly would throw a carnivorous cat among the ethical eaters. As no animals would be harmed. Any ‘harm’ would be self inflicted.

We already take blood samples.

(charlie3) #6

I’d guess your idea could happen but may be 2 or 3 generations in the future. One of the arguments made against eating animal products is environmental harm to land used to grow their food. May be quantum computers will help formulate synthetic animal feed that can be made with cheap fusion energy and most land that feeds farm animals can be regurned to the wild. May be it will make more sense to make synthetic animal feed instead of synthetic human food.

#7

Hey Charlie thanks for participating. Great point about synthetic nutrition and where it may be targeted in the human food cycle in the future.

Yes, I might be jumping the gun by a century or so. At least it is on the internet for digital archeologists to find.

Another reality check was some more detailed information about the current process of generating stem cell based meat-like protein. It all starts with a dead foetus. So that rules out it being a meat source for vegans until the stem cells can be collected without harm.

That information came from the final 10 minutes of this informative podcast:

The podcast also clearly explains the benefits of efficient food animal production for humans and our preferred environment.

This thread was a thought experiment fuelled by a ketone powered brain.

(Helen Taylor) #8

You all have watched Soylent Green, right?

#9

I’ve only watched the trailer.

(Anne Brodie) #10

This is one of the most thought-provoking concepts I’ve had the pleasure of tasting in a very long time. These ramifications of using my own fat as fuel had not occurred to me.

My first thought is wondering if using only my own meat would limit me protectively or in range of adaptability. It benefits me (and can be a risk) to be exposed to the germs of others, let’s say. I am guessing this would also be true with ingested/used proteins and fats.

#11

It is a fun thought experiment Anne.

Your comment makes me ask the question, “Who is you, who am I?” It gets all Cartesian.

The thing about autocannibalism and eating meat and fat grown from one’s own stem cells, is that the ‘food’ is delivered via the digestive system.

Some is delivered directly from the mouth, stomach and upper small intestine into the body. In to what some of us regard as the “self”, if we have cultivated a strong mind-body awareness and connection.

But we are also a bag, or a universe. For the rest of the intestine then involves trillions of beings, the gut microbiome. We eat to feed them. So we are feeding our flesh and fat to these beings that exist inside our digestive tract, but technically external to our body. The biome digest the food into nutrients which are absorbed.

Is your biome, you? It is an intimately connected population of creatures that rely on their human wrapping.

Are we, as a sentient being, a singular entity? Or are we just the conscious part of a complex symbiotic ecosystem?

It’s all delicious stuff.

What I’m saying is that once we harvest and grow tissues from our own cells, once they are eaten, they are not just returned as building blocks to the body. As they grew there would have been inputs and variations in the growth (and risk of bacterial, viral and fungal exposure). I think of a vegetable garden, gardening, and the gardener as an analogy. And then there is the interaction with the gut biome before the nutrition is returned. What came along with it? Is it enough to stimulate inner being beneficial hormesis?

So much to explore. First we do it in the imagination tour bus.

#12

Yeah. I just do my best to ignore these type of threads these days, lest I get in trouble for saying too much.

(Jay Patten) #13

I hear this argument a lot. But the reality is that animals can be grown where crops cannot. Goats, for example, can thrive in arid, rocky areas and in mountains where crops simply cannot be grown.

I think that we (I’m talking about Americans here) need to reevaluate our dietary standards. Why do we mostly only eat beef, chicken, pork and fish? Why can’t I get goat meat from my local Publix? Or bison (other than the expensive “specialty” ground bison)? Or rabbit? Or venison? Or even rattlesnake?

There are so many sources of protein that we Americans turn our noses up to. But why? Goat is effing delicious! And I’d love to try rattlesnake steak or stewed rabbit. I mean, why not?!

Also, hate to say it, bugs. Bugs may just be the best source of sustainable protein on Earth. Ever heard of cockroach bread? Google it… if you are brave enough.

Okay, I’ll admit… I’m not eating cockroach bread either, lol. But don’t miss my point… not everything needs to come from a cow, pig or chicken!

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #14

Anyone interested in this topic might find it interesting to read Arthur C. Clarke’s short story, “The Food of the Gods.”

(charlie3) #15

The almighty market will sort out demand for food, meat or otherwise.

(Anne Brodie) #16

Very fun imagination tour bus! No electric ketoaid needed.

I pose that we are ALL of the above… One system containing many other systems. The neighborhood contains multiple gardens, each having one or more beds that boldly display a variety of rows… the flower is its own bag o’ systems.

I started thinking about the biome transplants and how bacteria from an obese mouse can make a slender mouse obese, etc. I suspect if 1000 measly bacteria were introduced into my gut they would quickly be conquered and perhaps I would exhibit even fewer of those biome properties as I did before. Multiply that by several factors and I take on those qualities. Since finding a more of a good balance with my body and other health factors, with my eating, I’ve thought that the best transplant I could have might be my own.

I extrapolate to imagine this imagination bus stopping at a repository where I could select the meal of the hour based on desired transformation rather than flavor. Me as I was at age seven might bring back some sense of youthfulness. Would a topping of Frankobear cells make me more eloquent with verbiage? Quite possible.

(Full Metal KETO AF) #17

Okay sci fi buffs! :nerd_face:

It seems to me that growing your own meat from your own stem cells would be complex, time consuming, expensive and you couldn’t produce enough to keep up with your dietary demands.

Now 3D organic printing might work. Your computer busy creating the meat of your choice while you’re away at work for the day, now that could work and be doable in the near future I think. :wink: :duck::rabbit::turtle::snake::cow2::giraffe::water_buffalo::ram::shark::unicorn::octopus::tropical_fish::kangaroo::sheep::ox::zebra::whale2::crocodile::dromedary_camel::pig2::yum:

:cowboy_hat_face:

#18

That brings a whole new meaning to the term “market your self”. We could literally eat our favourite celebrities or most hated politicians.

#19

Science needs artists. Thanks for the link.

H G Wells also hinted at cannibalism in a future human utopia in the Time Machine. I saw the 1960 film as a kid in the 1970s. It obviously stayed in my thinking when I look at this post. I loved the steam punk arm chair time machine. Have not yet read the book.

#20

Cannibalism spreads prions. Enjoy your kuru.