Friend Hired the Wrong Nutritionist Not Sure What to do

(Bob M) #21

Wouldn’t we all? (Well, for me, not Sicilian, as that tends to be basically bread where I live, but thin-crust pizza. I could live exclusively on that. Though ice cream would help, too.)

I have to say that we somehow got both our daughters on the high carb trail, even though we eat a lot of meat (me, in particular). I don’t think it’s hard to do, because carbs are everywhere. And given the choice between things like pizza and steak, even I would choose pizza (though I don’t, after seeing what happens on CGM with pizza and knowing that wheat and I don’t get along). They do like steak, though.

We just constantly tell them that meat is better for them. If you want to be tired and hungry in an hour, eat rices/noodles/pizza. If you want to have energy later, eat meat. (Which is exactly the opposite of what everyone believes or is told, but it’s true.)

Want to be hangry or have mood swings? Eat rice/noodles/pizza/sugar. Want none of that? Eat meat.

#22

My husband and my boys are the exception to that. Sure they like pizza but if my husband had a choice between never eating a roast/steak/chop again (especially steakhouse quality) or never eating pizza he would not even hesitate! He did well on Keto for awhile but then somehow fell off the wagon and gained everything back. I could easily eat be a vegetarian except that wheat gives me all sorts of stomache and reflux problems, again magic pill and all. I do find I miss meat if I havent eaten it in awhile but I actually like tofu (although not when I make it!)

My older daughter loves pasta in all forms (which is weird because I hated pasta when I was pregnant with her and never got the taste fully back, sure I like it but it used to challenge pizza as my favorite- she graduated college already so this is not recent!) She has gotten really bad migraines over the last few years, I have suggested Keto to her based on things I have read. She thinks I am just doing the windex thing (Keto as the solution to all of life’s physical and mental problems) but there are articles

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #23

Don’t know where else to say this, so I’ll say it here.

When I discovered keto I was like a duck who discovered water. I don’t miss anything I ate pre-keto and don’t any more. I love the good health and fitness that most folks my age don’t have. I thank my ancestors every day.

(Bob M) #24

I wish I could find the podcast I listened to about this. The woman had a theory that migraines are caused because the brain no longer works well with glucose (I forget whether she characterized this as an insulin resistance), and she was doing research on ketones. She had to use exogenous ketones, as dietary interventions were too difficult She did recommend keto to all her clients, though.

If you haven’t sent her these, though, here are more:

This is a 2ketodudes podcast, but not the one I listened to:

Another one, though not the one I listened to:

#25

I ate no wheat on my low-carb (almost) vegetarian diet… It was pretty cool except, as it turned out, I still ate way too much carbs, even when on keto.
I definitely never felt any health problems when eating carbs, I just overate (okay, maybe some mental health then) and that’s not good on any woe. My brain is the same too as far as I can tell… But I am fine on very low-carb while some people can’t function like that and thrives on high-carb. Each to their own.
I dislike tofu, I kinda like seitan (I learned to make a super tasty one after I tried carnivore and I like to be close to carnivore so I almost never ate it, maybe I would get bored in no time. whatever, it’s an emergency option as it’s even satiating, wonderful. few things satiate me well) and never noticed any problem with gluten. I just consider meat way better nutritionally and I am right, of course. I don’t think I ever miss meat, I miss eggs and fat and variety sometimes (and then I eat whatever I miss)… But meat is so easy and nutritious and satiating, it makes life so easier…

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #26

In my case, I only get migraines if I am lacking in sodium.

(Bob M) #27

That means you’re probably not insulin-resistant in your brain. Her theory was interesting, and she started theorizing it when one of her clients told her she did not eat for a while, but had red wine. Apparently, red wine is a trigger (for some) for migraines, and she theorized it was the not eating part that helped. That led her down the path toward ketones.

But her idea is that the brain can’t use glucose during migraines, and needs an alternative fuel. That fuel being ketones.

Though I did not realize salt could cause migraines.

Salt and I are still not friends. I thought I needed a lot of extra salt, so I’d drink salty drinks after exercising, take extra salt during the day, etc. Then I stopped all that. The effect? Nothing. No additional cramps.

Now, it’s winter, so maybe this plays a role. But it’s odd that I’m eating a lot less salt yet have no ill effects. Can’t explain it.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #28

I believe you meant to say “lack of salt”? And I’m not sure lack of sodium is precisely what causes migraines. The references say simply “headaches,” and it seems that the headaches I get just happen to be migraines.

But I do notice that if I start to get an aura and take a couple of pinches of salt, it seems to head off the aura within a few minutes. Without salt, I need to lie down for a while, to see whether the aura will go away or will develop into a full-blown migraine.

Fortunately, since I started keto, the auras generally go away on their own in less than an hour, without progressing into a migraine; because if I do get a migraine, I am done for the day.

#29

I sent this to my daughter with the migraines awhile ago. https://www.everydayhealth.com/migraine/things-you-need-to-know-about-the-keto-diet-and-migraine/

The problem is that there is evidence that right before and during migraine our cells become insulin-resistant — or less sensitive to the effects of insulin — for a period of time, he says.

I suggested to her that if she does not want to do Keto, she may want to have some Agave syrup available which is 80% fructose which is provided by the liver to the portal vein and distributed that way. I realize that insulin resistance really means that the cells cannot take glucose but I thought it might be worth a try anyway

I guess my issue with migraines as a symptom of insulin resistance is that it is often found in otherwise healthy teenagers or 20 somethings. Diabetes 2 is found in people in their 40s - 60s, who are often overweight or sedentary or have a family history (I have a relative who walked 2 miles a day and was not overweight but had the history, his cousin who was overweight got it 10 or more years earlier.)

Any find any relief with Curcumin? She has some unrelated right knee and right shoulder pain from an injury (her pain is not in the back of the neck when she gets a migraine but the front and side left and she was getting migraines before the shoulder pain which is since last summer). She cannot take the pain meds (some NSAID) because it may interfere with her migraine meds so I was thinking of asking her neurologist if she can take Bromlein or Curcumin with the idea that it may help everything

@PaulL she does not get auras although she can feel them coming. They are fairly short duration but right before she switched neurologists they started lasting longer and more frequently. What I found when I did a little research is that there are many different types of headaches that are classified as migraines. My family doctor feels this is a very understudied area

(Robin) #30

Interesting. I have had migraine auras for years. No headache, luckily. Had them every couple of weeks. I just realized I Haven’t had one in a looong time.
I swear I am seeing some of the too-good-to-be-true effects from 3 -4 may 5-6 months carnivore. It’s hard to say… it was such a natural transition. I rarely have cheese or eggs, but still have my heavy cream with coffee. Otherwise, all meat, all the time. Crazy, man!
I’m gonna share this in the carnivore category.

#31

that just made me laugh. windex to the rescue HAHA

(Bob M) #32

Have you tried exogenous ketones? If they work, then she’d know that a keto diet would likely help.

If you were near CT, USA, I’d drive a bottle to you. I got it for my mother, whose heart I think was failing (another beneficial use of ketones). But I never gave it to her, as she got too sick and passed away. And I don’t really like them, at least the last time I tried them, I did not. They made me “jittery”.

(And I hate to say it, but her knee/right shoulder pain might also be helped by keto. Whether that’s ketones, I doubt that. I think it’s lack of whatever is in plants. I personally have almost no joint pain, as I eat a low plant diet. If I switch to high plant for a while, say on vacation, those pains seem to come back. That’s one thing keeping me near or at keto.)

I’ve tried Curcumin, but I can’t take it. A lot of things like this, berberine, etc., all cause me issues.

Edit: Some evidence certain types of pain are reduced by a keto diet, as is inflammation (done in rats, mice, but not humans):

(Edith) #33

Maybe your friend can ask the nutritionist for some research papers to back up that claim?

(Edith) #34

4 - Because he looks pretty darned sexy, I mean healthy.

#35

Yes! I very much agree. Keto has saved my life. I’m certain I’d be dead or severely handicaped by now if I hadn’t switched to this way of eating. This natural way of eathing has turned my life around! :bacon::plate_with_cutlery::cut_of_meat::poultry_leg::meat_on_bone::cheese::upside_down_face:

#36

Nice idea but as we all know any research can be manipulated to say anything. I would be curious about the research that she says causes changes to gray matter after skipping a meal. I will ask my friend to ask her for that link.

As my friend is watching her kid, she is thinking more and more that this is simply executive functioning and not wanting to be bothered. It may also be a little bit of a teenager thinking, if I don’t have time to eat, and I don’t eat, maybe I will lose a little weight, is that such a bad thing?! When food is provided she eats! She just seems very bad at preparing it or going and getting it when she is in school or when there are meat/chicken options for dinner, then she takes rice, melts some cheddar on it and calls it dinner! My friend’s daughter is very solid. She is not obese in any sense but she weighs a little more than she would like because she inherited her dad’s build which is very strong and muscular even without exercising but her weight is relatively stable

@ctviggen, not close enough to CT to make the trip but thank you for the offer. I bought a bottle awhile ago and then something exploded in my cabinet (not the MCT) and I ended up tossing it and a bunch of other stuff. Never used more than one serving. I will have her try it although she is pretty resistant to most of my ideas that are not conventional or involve her having to eat things that are not pasta or similar carbs! Curious what reactions you had to Berberine and curcumin. I have tried both and honestly felt nothing. I keep thinking I should take Berberine but it does not seem to do anything or is it more subtle than that?! Also sometimes it is the bottle or brand. For example, we are big on melatonin in my house (none of us sleep well). I have found while most melatonin works really well on me, every once in awhile I will get a bottle that seems to do nothing. I buy different brands and strengths all the time and I would say one in ten do nothing, 5 out of 10 knock me out and the others work ok. Again I have had 1mg work really well and 3mg not work at all and vice versa

(Bob M) #37

That is a big issue, getting good supplements. It’s impossible to know.

For berberine, I felt bad and had some heart palpitations. Note that I have idiopathic dilated cardiomyopathy (meaning my heart was getting larger for reasons not understood), and I’ve been on drugs for 9.5 years and on low carb for 9 years. There could be an issue with the drugs, though I’m thinking berberine causes an effect with glucose. I think my body likes where it is, after 9 years, and does not like losing glucose. For instance, my ketones are insanely low now, and I think my body is used to that and used to FFAs (free fatty acids), and products like berberine, known for being good for T2 diabetics, are not that good for me.

For me, heart palpitations show up for some of these supplements. Berberine happens to be one of them.

As for curcumin, I tried taking that, and also felt bad. Now, I might retry that again, as I was trying something else at the time that could’ve instead caused the issue. Curcumin might have just rode on top of that.

But the reason I haven’t tried curcumin is that the main emphasis is on its anti-inflammatory benefits. I already have low inflammation (at least by HS-CRP), so that doesn’t seem to be necessary. This says it has other benefits:

Of those, the only one I would like is “anti-cancer” but they use population-wide data for that. When you get to studies, the benefits for cancer are unclear:

Anyway, that’s my story. If I thought curcumin would help me, I’d attempt to take it again.

I have thought about melatonin, but I haven’t tried it yet. If you find a good version, let us know.

#38

Pretty much any that you pick up works with a few random exceptions. I actually like the spray, Nutraspray or the liquid from Vitamin Shoppe because I find that I have trouble going to sleep and I can use this much later than I can a 3 or 5 mg pill and not feel drowsy the next day but YMMV. It may be too carby for some on here as it has a sweet taste. For pills I like the Natrol brand

#39

my 17 yr old is like me…she won’t eat breakfast either and she goes off to school on the 6:45 bus and walks into the house at 3:15 in the afternoon. she eats nothing all day. she is straight A all thru. she is definitely an artist/creative type for sure, since she can do portraits like no one’s business, lol…she has been doing this for darn near every single year of school :slight_smile: She eats a big real meal when she comes thru the door home cause I cook it for her. She then eats a small dinner of whatever in that 7-8 range at night. I see no lower brain matter other than her being a teen, HAHA…joking here on all that.

She has not suffered at all thru this type of not eating all day at school. I said over and over eat SOMETHING, let me make ya something to nibble on, buy something at school?? NOPE was her response. She didn’t want it so I made sure when she came home from school she had a full on ‘lc’ type meal and this is now her routine and she is flourishing.

one thing I learned, never force anyone to eat or clean their plate when they don’t wanna just thru common sense of raising my kid. They eat when they want to eat :slight_smile:

NOW that is JUST US here LOL not saying this suits everyone but that is how my 17 yr old daughter rolls. I don’t give her eating patterns any thought, she does she.

(Edith) #40

That was the one I was thinking of, as well.