@April_Harkness they are exactly like militant vegans…and I can’t be bothered with that crap. It doesn’t help anyone to be so narrow minded. All that aside, our propensity to have either predominantly type 1 or 2 muscle fibers is actually more adaptable than most people think. I’m a CPT, and have seen people develop greater endurance capacity when they are predisposed to more type 2 fibers by increasing that type of training. I personally would be considered an “endurance athlete” despite having the genes for more type 2 fibers. I don’t run marathons- more like 10k distances- so you can play around with different training regimens. My experience eating carnivore was ok- I had no patience to keep going past 6 weeks, I only have it a try out of curiosity, not necessity. My running performance/energy levels really started to tank near the end of that timeframe. I am very lean, and even upping my fat intake didn’t help. So I went back to a more diverse keto style way of eating and I felt better. But you owe no one an explanation for what works best for you. If you need more carbs than eat them! I eat FRUIT sometimes…shocker!! Throw me in low carb prison
If you think that made such a big difference, you should try a CKD glycogen recompensation. I got to the point I did them infrequently rather than each week, you should try one just for the experience.
Ckd is def not for me. the facebook page had lots of ppl gorging on junk like cap n crunch cereal…and their depletion workout seem just to be for the sake of getting to eat cap n crunch ( i could be wrong). Also it seems to me that the depletion workout in order to uptake those carbs iis mainly used for aesthetics,wheras my training is solely for performance/competition (and not bodybuilding comps, lifting comps which are VERY different). Also not going to do a depletion workout in addition to my comp training or instead of comp training. I also have a history of binge eating. Ckd i think, would send me back to binge eating.
If it helps you guard against that F word to hear of other athletes finding similar… my long-time distance runner husband still finds after 3+ years base diet of very low-carb keto that he needs higher carbs when he gets into trainings above 1/2 marathon distances or adds hilly trail run routes and most especially after a pace challenge run.
Hopefully you do not care what others think if you change up your diet? Even if people make comments online, I doubt that they care/remember 2 seconds after they post. Do what is best for you.
Consider looking into this YouTube channel. They are carnivore, but recently started switching things up for an upcoming powerlifting competition.
I have seen their channel and follow them on instagram already. powerlifting is still different than oly lifting. What works carb wise for pl may still not work for oly…or maybe it will. Right now, pure zero carb is not working.
There are some meats that have carbohydrates. A lot of seafood does, such as mussels and scallops. And liver does as well (although that is contested).
Also, honey and dairy are both technically carnivore and have carbohydrates.
April I don’t want to drag the thread offtopic too much, but just a quick question: do you have a succinct example of the diff between olympic lifting and powerlifting? All this time I thought they were the same thing!!
Powerlifting movements are back squat, bench press, and deadlift.
Olympic lifting requires more power (quick movement + strength), and the movements are the snatch and the clean & jerk.
Also, if you want to go off carnivore, you could have some carbs but don’t get to the highly sugared cereal carb loading. For me (not carnivore at all, though I eat many carnivore meals, but still eat veggies), I’ll add tomatoes, onions, pickles, even small amounts of potatoes at times. Not a huge amount of carbs, and I do this infrequently (try to eat in season, too), but it does seem to help. For instance, had basically what I said for two days in a row, and set a new recent best for pushups and other lifting. I’ve never been an olympic or power lifter, as my genetics suck for those. And I’m older now and have too many injuries to attempt those. But my lifting does seem to be improved with a few more carbs (and this could be placebo effect, though I don’t think it is).
People do keto or carno for different reasons. The reason will dictate the rules. Most do keto/Karen to heal their deranged metabolism. You are doing it to maximize athletic performance. Those are two different goals and so will have two different paths.
Go for the carbs for peak performance but know that it may be at odds with peak long-term health.
This isn’t uncommon at high levels of sport. To be the best sometimes means training or performing in a way that might not maximize overall health. Bodybuilders cutting to 3 percent body fat. Ultramarathoners running a hundred miles in high heat. Pitchers overstressing their arms. They are making a calculated decision to win even at the risk of impairing their health.
As long as you know what you are doing, go for it.
Personally my goal is metabolic health but when that is achieved I intend to resume powerlifting. At that point I will have to decide if I should prioritize my lifting totals or overall health. Since I see my sport as the means and health as the end, it will be an easy decision but I respect those who have athletic excellence as their primary goal.
I recommend listening to this podcast with Robb Wolf:
At about the 20 minute mark or so, he discusses targeted carb intake for workouts. He says even a small amount of carbs pre-workout (and possibly post-workout) can be good. In fact, they can lessen a blood sugar spike caused by exercising. He believes the body will sense this small amount of carbs and lessen the amount of blood glucose in response to the workout.
I’ve only listened to about 30 minutes of this, but I like his style. He’s not dogmatic and believes the person should dictate the care. In your case, you might benefit from more carbs, with little to no detriment.
I only work out three days a week now, less than three hours. However, I might try a small amount of carbs to see what happens. That would require my getting back into monitoring my blood glucose, which I haven’t done in a while. But maybe I could have two weeks of workouts without carbs to see what happens, then two weeks of workouts with carbs to see what happens.
I certainly feel this on a spiritual level. The physique has never been better but weights are sooooo heavy now. The problem was I thought I lost more strength than I thought I did. I didn’t have the sheer force of weight from my body to move weight and had to genuinely recognize my actual strength. I needed to believe in my strength and push through my limitations. When I did that it occurred to me I’ve never been stronger in my life.
For me, I (a) don’t have the genetics to be strong, (b) see (a), © see (a), (d) am older, and (e) have many injuries, including a completely torn rotator cuff muscle. So, I exercise because I like it and lifting reduces stress for me much more than does aerobics. It’s also faster, as I can lift 1/2 my body in 30 minutes with no problems, once per week (the other 1/2 another day in the week). To get the same stress relief from aerobics, it takes me a much longer time. I lift for fun, not for weights or any other reason.
But if taking in targeted carbs would reduce a blood sugar spike caused by exercise, maybe that would be good. I’m not sure I’m the best candidate for this, though, as my blood sugar doesn’t really spike much. The 5:44 am reading is from a FreeStyle Libre CGM (as are all of them), before my workout. The 8:20 am reading is after my workout. The 11:14 am is “after eating, 1/2 a beef heart, liquid from cooking the beef heart, and 2 eggs”. Not a huge blood sugar rise, and this has to be analyzed knowing that my normal blood sugar graph is that it goes up from about midnight until about noon, then down all day until about midnight, no matter what I do.
That is something I’d love to see data for. I’m having trouble imagining a mechanism by which that could work. I also wonder if it’s necessary. If we evolved a mechanism by which exercise raises serum glucose, wouldn’t that mean that there is either a survival advantage to it or at least no detriment to it? I wish I could be confident that Mr. Wolf has thought this all the way through. . . .
He’s tested it on his patients/followers. That how he knows it works (for some people, particularly true athletes). He does not know why it works, although he thinks there is a central regulator that figures this out.
He specifically referred to some people who could get very high blood sugar after working out. That was blunted significantly by some carbs.
As for your question about higher blood sugar levels naturally, I’ve also thought about that. When I was wearing my CGM, I could get relatively high BS all day if I, say, went jogging in the morning and then did renovation-type housework (think running up and down stairs, etc.). Is that good or bad? I’m not sure. Similarly with morning blood sugar. If you’re keto, is higher morning BS bad? It’s “bad” for high carb people, only because its an indicator of blood sugar problems, but it might not be bad for keto people.
He also indicated that some people can increase their carbs substantially and still be in ketosis, if they are exercising a lot. Some (including him) can’t. He’s basically ruined, though he has been able to increase them a bit over time.
He also said that the more IR you were and are, the more likely it is you’ll experience keto flu and a ketone “high”. If you’re less IR and more metabolically flexible, you might not get those.
He compared his wife and him. They ate the same amount of rice. Her blood sugar barely broke 100, his neared 200. She’s more metabolically flexible than he is.
Using a CGM, I have found that fresh salsa, popcorn, and some other “higher” carb meals don’t affect my blood sugar – at all. Zero. I still don’t eat them very often, but this whole “eat less than 20 grams of carbs or you will FAIL” and similar “if you’re carnivore and you eat any plant matter ever you will FAIL” might be wrong for some, many, or all people.
From that perspective, he’s refreshing.
UPDATE: giving up on targeted keto
The last two weeks I have been able to rock my olympic sessions and my kettlebell sessions without doing TKD .
I started carnivore back in June and unlike keto, carnivore took awhile for me to get adapted. But now I am feeling really good, and not just looking good. With carnivore, within 2 weeks I looked phenomenal. (I know, I know, I sound narcisistic. ANd I looked great on keto. but that took a few months. When I switched to carnviore just to help squelch my food cravings, bloating and hunger once and for all, I did not expect to get any more improvements in aesthetics. But i did. Quickly. Much faster than regular keto. Just energy wise I tanked. But now? I have been coming into fasted training and slaying it.
They really should switch names because power (work over time) is displayed in weightlifting not powerlifting. Weightlifting must be done quickly, in a burst. Powerlifting can be done quickly or slowly, it doesn’t matter. If you watch weightlifting at the olympics (powerlifting is not an Olympic sport), you will see that it is basically jumping with weights.
So just a few days ago…I stated I no longer was doing TKD. Carnivore still good. But a few days ago I forgot my salt water electrolyte concoction I drink right before training. Luckily I had glucose tabs from when I was doing TKd leftover in my bag. Took 3 tabs…and bam. I did much better than my electrolyte drink. I know I might get flak for it and most of the time I notice it does come from ketoers who do mainly running and biking…not lifting. Oly lifting, kettlebell sport is just a completely different animal to cardio. What works for long distance does not work for ME. So after this video, the past two workouts I’ve combined my electrolyte drink and glucose tabs. Phenomenal. I feel like I really am on a performance enhancing drug. And it’s legal. So I will keep TKD in two of my training sessions. My hard one and moderate session. My technique sessions I will not TKD. I don’t feel guilty. I am lifting extremely hard. And if I hear one more person tell me to eat some fat or protein right before my 6am workout…obliviously you must not be an oly lifter! It sucks having to lift a heavy load with a stomach that is still digesting which is why I prefer fasted training other than my electrolyte drink and glucose tabs. Anything else weighs me down. https://youtu.be/_-yg9U3MiB8
If it works for you then that’s what matters! We’re not a cult…even though it sometimes looks that way.