Fats , how low?

(Luke) #41

Hi Allie. Thanks. Do you think the scales tend to tell you that you are leaner than reality or the other way. I was going to check it properly once I thought I was close. Not sure I’ll even get there yet. I need to change something in my diet , hence why I asked about the fat , or do a heap of cardio or something. Thanks again.

(Allie) #42

Can’t be sure as I’ve never had a DEXA to compare, but I suspect they make things seem more positive than they actually are. They are still a very helpful tool for following trends though, so use them to see if you’re headed the right way, just don’t rely on them for accuracy.

Don’t do cardio for fat loss, it’s really no good for that. Health yeah, but fat loss, definitely not.

If you want to tighten things up, maybe best to further reduce carbs and see what that does rather than mess with fats and, if not already doing so, add resistance training with the aim of building muscle which will improve your body composition no end as well as increasing your BMR.

(Luke) #43

Thanks! :+1:t2:

(Luke) #44

Hi Allie. I wanted to leave the comment about cardio because you are fairly educated in this area , but it really does make a difference to me. I jog sometimes especially if I wanting to drop kgs fast and it works so well. Only 3-5km 3 times a week and drop about 1kg a week when I do it. I know its not trendy to do it , everyone is saying to do resistance training but I think there is something in cardio and weight loss for me. I get it that it’s probably just creating a bigger calorie deficit from burning more calories…But in your defence lots of people have told me not to do it , or one trainer at the gym said , running on that treadmill will do nothing, all the while I reached a goal weight I was wanting in 1 month.

(Allie) #45

It’s entirely your choice Luke, but keep in mind, there’s weight loss and there’s fat loss. Cardio can encourage weight loss yes, but not specifically the fat loss that is most desired and beneficial, most often muscle loss as that’s the signal cardio sends to the body and long-term, this is extremely detrimental.

#46

It would be a very stupid body that would use muscle for such tiny cardio… The fat is supposed to be the fuel.
It’s another matter entirely when one runs hundreds of kms especially without eating properly during it, I have heard about insane muscle (and fat, of course) loss in days in such circumstances… I wouldn’t think even that is detrimental if it’s just for the occasional ultramarathon, not really great for the body, sure, not healthy days but serious level of sport if often like that, it’s worth it for them and the pros know how to rest from it.
But a tiny running? My SO does that, 12-17km once a week, how could that be a problem? :smiley: It’s not for fat-loss (it could be with skipping meals), it’s for avoiding gaining fat - and all the good exercise can do, of course.

(Luke) #47

Hi again. Thanks for the info, in hindsight I think I knew this , but from a while ago​:face_with_monocle: I think I research to much sometimes and forget basics. And flip flop on what I should be doing. :exploding_head:

(Luke) #48

I thought the same Shinita , it’s about 12km a week, you wouldn’t think it would strip muscle. But the world is very backward sometimes. It probably makes it hard to make gains while your doing it. I google to much I forget half the stuff I’ve learnt. Keto has worked very well for me though.

#49

I actually forgot it’s this topic, obviously I don’t need to worry about my tiny muscles if I do some cardio but it’s different when one is near their natural maximum I suppose and who knows what is in between… But I still don’t think a little running could be really problematic. It works for animals, then run and stay muscular, I consider some running very very basic for a land mammal… Just don’t overdo it if you don’t want to harm your musculature, of course, that is very very well-known. I definitely wouldn’t skip cardio if I wouldn’t be this lazy thing. I lift and walk but cardio? I do it way too rarely as I strongly prefer other exercise. But cardio has its own benefits.

(Luke) #50

Most cardio that actually works and gets the heart and lungs going , really sucks to do as we age.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #51

Interestingly, I was just reminded of the phenomenon called “rabbit starvation,” in which fur trappers 300 years ago in North America who tried to live of the rabbits they caught for food, died from lack of fat.

The modern description of rabbit starvation calls it “protein toxicity” rather than “fat deficiency” (since there’s no way that any fat could possibly be good for us), but nevertheless it does answer the question of how low fat intake can go in the absence of dietary carbohydrate.

(Michael) #52

I actually believe, from all my protein experiments, that you can have protein toxicity IN the presence of high fat as well, if the protein exceeds 3.4 g/ kg bodyweight. Eat 400 g of both protein and fat for weeks and I think you will see what I mean when looking at thyroid function. This might be separate from rabbit starvation which is indeed a fat shortage issue.

#53

Rabbit starvation isn’t simply low-fat, it’s almost no fat, obviously bad as fat is essential. But if there is plenty of food and usually hunger, protein toxicity seems highly likely too…

I learned that from @PaulL, actually. Well that was 3.3 I think but almost the same…

At that point most of us get extreme overeating too with its own problems. I never feel really good when I overeat like crazy (and that’s only 200-250 g fat and protein. possibly carbs get high too but I did it on carnivore here and there, one day feels fine without the carbs but more? can’t happen). Serious overeating must be burdensome to the body.

(Luke) #54

Thanks for all the info guys. I’m always intrigued at how in depth some of my questions get answered and the information available. After sifting through it all I thought it was best just to keep my carbs really low or next to nothing , while trying to get to a very low body fat percentage instead of cutting fats as well. Although this is on hold due to travel , then got covid for a week. On going injury and told not to train again and then some type of other flu. Combined took up a month. :pray:t2:

(Robin) #55

Darn it! Hang in there!