Fats , how low?

(Brian) #21

50 carbs is pushin’ a bit on carbs. And some people do seem to find that a lot of dairy can work against them.

My own inclination would be to take the carbs down to maybe 10 to 20 max or just take a few weeks and try out carnivore, and maybe lighten up on or even eliminate the cheese. Might it be a good time to try out the BBBE thing? (Beef, Bacon, Butter, and Eggs) Have seen some 30 day BBBE challenge things a few times and been tempted to join in. Then again, some days, that’s not all that far from what I’ll eat anyway.

For energy, you have to have something to run on. Carbs and fat are the two easiest sources of fuel for your body. Protein, well, it may be able to pull some out if it has to but it’s not as easily available. There are also limits as to how much fat you can pull from your onboard fat stores. (Kinda seems like that’s been a topic somewhere on the board, probably related to fasting and “how much fat a person can pull from their own fat stores per day” but may be somewhat applicable here, too. Better minds than mind will probably already be doin’ the math. :wink: )

I know we’re all a little different and some methods tend to fit more easily to certain individuals. Just sharing my own inclinations. Wishing you the best of luck whatever you try. Hope you’ll get it worked out and get into a groove that fits you.

(Bob M) #22

Well, some people think if you’re eating fat, you’re not burning fat. But it’s not true, at least for some (she ate a very high animal fat diet and lost weight; and she eats the same diet now and is pretty darn lean):

Now, what you need to do to cut is a different story. One for which I have no input.

An aside. She went from her original diet to eating a TON of beef fat, which supposedly is high in saturated fat. And her LDL went DOWN.

image

So much for “eating saturated fat raises LDL”.

#23

I eat a lot of beef and pork fat. I don’t limit it, and I like how nice and juicy it makes the meat.

(Luke) #24

Hi Brian. Cheers for the advice. I think it could work although something inside me tells me to put keto friendly salads or veg in everyday. Must have been mum all those years telling me to do so. But yes I see your point , no carbs at all could get you super lean in theory.

(Chuck) #25

Well I do moderately low carbs, my daily goal is less than 100 but most days I am 75 or less. I do have plenty of fat in my diet as well as protein. At my age my doctor recommends more protein. But he does not push carbs and for that I am happy he is my doctor. As far as dairy I have my share of whole milk, real butter, and cheese. I also do fasting an average of 19 hours a day, some days like today I fasted just over 22 hours. And to be honest I don’t count calories or carbs. I am old enough and have in the past counted calories and micronutrients enough to know what I am eating. I have lost over 43 pounds over the last 10 months by eating more calories than I was eating when I was gaining weight. How by cutting down on carbs, not eating highly processed or refined foods, no fast food and not drinking fruit juice, or soft drinks not even diet soda.
Yes we all are different and we each have to find what works for each of us. The other thing is we have to be flexible and willing to change as our bodies change.

#26

I vary in how many carbs I eat, as well as in how many meals I eat. Some days are carnivore OMAD, others I eat some berries and green veggies or blistered tomatoes, I do change it up a bit. Plus I fall for summer seasonal, local fruit. It hasn’t messed anything up, I lost slowly and consistently for the most part, with some stalls when the body adapts to the new weight.

(Rossi Luo) #27

Well, never heard a very low carb and low fat “Keto” diet, if there is such diet, I am thinking what energy source your body can have? I have a very lean friend is also trying to get his body fat down from 21% to 15% on Keto diet, I don’t his progress now, I think the best option to lower body fat percentage is to increase muscles rather than lowering fat intake. I’m not a professional on this, just my thought.

#28

I met some people online who did low-fat keto… It may work for some, of course it’s not super low-fat and it means a bigger deficit but some people can afford that. Easier for some people with lots of extra fat, I saw some huge deficits working out…
It is trickier when one already has very little fat to get energy from but I know about nothing about healthy cutting when it’s not even about some normal weight but getting a dry look and minimizing muscle loss is really important too…

No matter the fat-mass, for a really dry look (okay, not pro bodybuilder but at least a hobby one) the fat percentage must be real low too, 15% isn’t low enough for a man when that is the goal.
Anywhere of below 15%, what the OP said, that’s good with some decent amount of muscle. I consider that the most aesthetically pleasing though I appreciate lower percentages too, as a sculpture or anatomy model… But they are harder and harder to reach and less and less possible to keep all year round. Especially without losing a lot of muscle in the process.

(Joey) #29

Didn’t read this entire thread, but wondering why the 15% figure is so important? I can see setting various goals around dimensions, proportions, muscle tone, strength, whatever.

But what is the significance for you of getting so-called body fat below a particular percentage? (After all, your body doesn’t really do math :wink: )

#30

My body totally do math but it’s for calories. Of course not everyone looks the same with 15% but somewhere below 15% sounds very good, the fat must go somewhere and much higher may be too soft and rounded for the one in question :wink:
Of course the actual looks matter, not mere numbers. But the two correlates somewhat. Body fat percentage is way better at that than height/gender/weight, obviously.

#31

After 3 months of strict keto, I did get to 10% body fat. Confirmed by a DEXA Scan. I did not set out to accomplish this. In hindsight, although I was a hyper-responder to keto, I found it hard to maintain as I reduced my caloric intake to an unreasonable level. Low energy was the primary problem. I also found that I seemed to be more susceptible to nose and throat infections, less fun to be around, and had poor sleep quality.

(Bob M) #32

@ffskier How did you fix that?

15% for males is pretty thin for normal folk. For body builders, they go below that (single digits?), which is what the “cutting” is: trying to reduce fat while not losing muscle.

#33

Please keep in mind that I did keto under the supervision of a medical doctor and a sports scientist. Initially, I kept a food journal so I was aware of what I was eating. But because the fat was satiating, I did not eat that much. I was also measuring my blood ketones every morning and was a super responder to Keto. However, the only food I was measuring was the amount of protein in grams on my plate and the one cup of blueberries per day (15 grams of carbs). I was exercising a lot, sometimes two training sessions per day. We discovered I was only eating about 1000–1300 calories per day. Clearly, it was not enough in my case. So I increased my food intake to over 2000 calories over a four-week period. On days with a higher volume of training, I would eat more, which would include more carbs as well. That was over twelve years ago. I no longer do extended fasts of between 1-4 days because I found that over time I was losing muscle mass, but rather skip breakfast 2-3 days a week as I am busy. I have not measured blood ketones for a very long time. I am currently at about 13% body fat. I have been involved in competitive sports my entire life, primarily endurance-type sports. I was also born with a very high Vo2Max and naturally gravitated towards endurance sports. My kids also have Vo2max levels that are very high.

Male professional bodybuilders will do crazy stuff before a competition and can get down to 3–4% body fat.

(Luke) #34

They have to measure it somehow so percentage it is. It’s just numbers but it is quite an achievement for a lot of people in health and fitness. I believe there is a number that is to low and it gets unhealthy but I think 15% would suit me very well ? That’s why I’m chasing that number personally.

(Luke) #35

Hi. This is very interesting to me. Great work by the way , I believe it takes quite an effort to stay at that percentage of body fat. I find sports science interesting if that’s what you participated in as an athlete 12 years ago?

(Joey) #36

I guess I’m struggling with the meaning of “achievement.” Sounds like the goal is to see a percentage pop up on a report somewhere.

As a lifelong devotee to my daily workouts, I can imagine many other milestones and goals that align more directly with the nature of athletic sport or related fitness achievement - but apparently even this old “numbers guy” can’t grasp every figure :wink:

(Luke) #37

Hi thanks for the advice. Just to clarify my idea was to burn my own body fat for energy until I reached my goal and then increase fat intake to maintenance. This is how I would keto if I was very obese…:wink: why put butter in your coffee if your 400 pounds. :man_shrugging:t2:

#38

Yeah that’s how we lose fat but there are limits. I don’t even know how quick fat-loss works for people with already a lowish fat percentage but probably with more than minimal muscle loss… And with different limits from the formula used to calculate how much energy can be drawn from out fat reserves, it’s clearly not true for everyone on every diet, after all. I wish to know more about these things, it’s interesting. (Just like it’s interesting WHY I can’t get energy from my moderately big fat reserves instead of just getting hungry on keto. I can do it but I need a stricter diet for that to happen. And another mind that resist temptation, possibly.)

(Luke) #39

Hi. Thank you , your explanation makes sense, I will try and research it more. It did sound a bit to easy to be true😂

(Allie) #40

They’re nowhere near accurate but can be useful to monitor trends.

I’ve cut fats in the past but it didn’t last. Now I just eat whatever fats come naturally with my food and don’t add extras just for the sake of it.

Last time I checked by scales (which as I said, are not accurate) claimed I was 17.5% BF with “above average” muscle mass.