Fat Adapted and Still Excreting Ketones in Urine: Survey 🔎

(Jane) #85

Last night my pee strip was a bit lighter than after my walk in the hot sun (was probably a bit dehydrated) but still in the large 80-range. Blood ketones 3.9

(Jane) #86

This morning pee stix back to very dark. Blood ketones at 6.7, blood glucose at 57. I am 59 hours in on my fast and these are typical BK and BG numbers for my third day.

(Empress of the Unexpected) #87

Woke up to a small pee strip reading and 0.5 ketones. At two in the afternoon, pee strip was trace and ketones 2.0. Now that could be a hydration issue. Because usually the strips go darker as my blood levels go higher. BG 89 upon waking and 93 an hour after lunch.


Right, can’t resist an experiment! :slightly_smiling_face:

I had 3.4 ketones late this morning and BGL is 5.
I was turning the colour on the stick to the second highest it registered, so not trace ketones in urine, lots of ketones.
The print is way too small for me to read.
I am in Oz so you need to translate 5 for US blood sugar readings (if you are after a precise number). Sorry I don’t have a table for that (and am a bit pressed for time currently) but 5 is well within normal blood glucose range. If I get a translator I will come back and edit it in in US numbers.

(Bob M) #89

Just multiply by 18, 5x18=90.

I have almost two thousand samples, some combination of blood, breath, urine ketones or blood sugar. Here are some more. Note at 60 hours fasting, I’m only at 0.6 in the morning. It goes, date, time, ketones (Precision Xtra at that time), ketonix, urine, blood sugar (from my old blood sugar meter, which I don’t remember what it was but still have it). Personally, after 3+ years of testing and almost 1,900 samples, I’ve given up on testing. It’s not useful.


Thank you for the formula Bob M. :grinning:

(Empress of the Unexpected) #91

Per stick trace. Blood ketones .9

(Michael - Don't expect miracles and you won't be disappointed.) #92

To everyone who has and continues to test, please accept my sincere Thank You All!

I’m declaring the survey formally completed. I think we have shown quite conclusively that fat adapted individuals can and do continue to excrete ketones in urine, which show up on the lowly ketostix long after the ‘conventional wisdom’ declared them useless for anything. From here, I think it logical to look towards answering the questions ‘why’, ‘how’ and ‘what’s going on here?’ If anyone has ideas on how to proceed, please post your suggestions.

All who wish to continue testing and posting results for this survey are welcome to do so. Although the formal survey has refuted the premise, additional results and comments are welcome.

(Karim Wassef) #93

How and why?

Inefficiency… the liver isn’t trying to (or can’t) hoard every bit of energy.

some of it is genetic, some of it is the result of body confusion.

The less confidence the liver has that it can predict what you’re going to need, the more margin it’ll give itself… and once excess ketones are made, they’re either used or excreted.

(Michael - Don't expect miracles and you won't be disappointed.) #94

@Karim_Wassef It seems that ‘good enough’ leads the evolutionary race against ‘flawless’. I think good enough is after all more survival enhancing than flawless. The evolutionary history of life on earth is rife with examples of organisms that evolved to a state of virtually ‘flawless adaptation’ to their environment. Some dominated their environments for millions of years. When their environment changed they could not change with it and either went extinct or declined to dead end status.

(Karim Wassef) #95

Don’t disagree. Not sure how to connect the dots though? :thinking:


It appears to be directly related to how much dietary fat I eat. Skipping meals, no color on the sticks. Up the fat intake, and the colors get bolder, until my morning insulin resistance blows everything out of the water.

(Jennibc) #97

Well, that’s someone’s opinion. I still show a year into it

(Jill Carpenter aka space coast spinster) #98

I don’t ever recall seeing anyone use/ post this word before on the trillions of forums I have read. Thank you! :rofl::rofl::rofl:

So I don’t get booted for going off topic, back in 2007 when I did the Atkins thing at one point I was down to 6-700 calories a day and mostly meat - and I was misguided by my “guru” at the time to be cutting the fat too at that point. I was very cautious with any veggies as they could make me more hungry. This was a good 5 months into the weight loss. I was close to done.

Anyways, I seem to recall through the fog of years the pee stick going lighter in color towards the end. It upset me. Although I have to admit I had reintegrated my evening cocktail. But I did walk 3 miles a day so felt I had to be burning it out quickly ( vodka club soda).

I was also popping a multi-vitamin every day.
Too much autophagy perhaps?

I dunno.

I’m too early in this new game, but perhaps I’ll get the other scientific equipment and track all that too.

(Alec) #99

You’re welcome! I love learning new words on this forum too!

(Old Baconian) #100

Some points to bear in mind, because they may be relevant to this discussion:

  • We measure one ketone body in blood, another in breath, and the third in urine, but all three of them appear in all three locations. There is the technology for measuring them, but probably not available for home use.

  • B-hydroxybutyrate is not the only ketone body that gets metabolized. All three of them can be used for energy.

  • The urine strips were developed for the specific purpose of alerting Type I diabetics to the fact that they need to go to the emergency room now (i.e., they are in danger of becoming ketoacidotic). They were never intended to be a precision measurement, merely to give warning far enough in advance for the patient to seek help while still functional. This means that using the strips to monitor a ketogenic diet is in some sense an “off-label” use.

  • These measurements all come with a fairly wide margin of error, meaning that fluctuations in readings may be less significant than they appear at first glance. Two readings with overlapping margins of error should probably be considered the same reading.

I don’t mean to spoil anyone’s fun with this post, merely to keep the discussion from leading to conclusions that might not be fully warranted. This is certainly an interesting thread to follow.