Fasting to avoid cancer

(Mary) #1

(I’ve done a thorough search and it doesn’t appear that this topic has been covered before so here goes…)

My mother (successfully) fought breast cancer when she was 5 years older than I am now. My dad passed away from liver cancer when he was 8 years older than I am now. I can hear the clock ticking and am beginning to get very anxious…

I’ve wobbled on and off of keto between Sept and Jan then on Jan 15 something clicked and I’ve been glued to it ever since (5 weeks! Yay!!!) Sadly, I haven’t lost an ounce but considering my genetics, going back to SAD isn’t an option so am KCKO. At any rate, my question is about fasting, not weight loss (or lack of same).

At the moment, I’m IF’ing between 16 and 23 hours a day. I find I’m not a natural breakfast eater so a fast works well. I’m beginning to think about extending it but am unsure about hunger signals. If I get them should I a) assume I’m not yet fat adapted and continue to eat LCHF until I am or b) ignore them and push through since they’ll go away in a few minutes. Just for the record, I’m not interested in copying that slightly masochistic guy in the other thread. Ignoring a little discomfort is one thing - pain is not on the agenda. My interest is autophagy and I suspect it’s not happening with IF.

I guess this post actually addresses two issues - fasting for cancer avoidance and the specifics of fasting itself.

Anyone want to weigh in on either?
Thanks,
Mary

(Trish) #2

Have you read The Complete Guide to Fasting yet? I’m part way through and it’s very good.

As for your hunger pangs, I would say if they go away in a few minutes then ignore them. If they persist or you feel really off then eat. You can probably tell the difference between feeling a little off and knowing something is wrong. That would be your defining point. Same concept as " oh I don’t feel well" and your muddle through versus “oh crap, I need to go to the hospital, this isn’t right”.

Not sure why you’re not losing any weight though. Could your macros be off perhaps? Are you using a food tracker? If not, you’d be surprised at what the true numbers are compared to what we think they are when not documenting everything. Maybe give us an idea of your intake and perhaps the group can make some suggestions. Also your vitals for a reference point.

(Rob) #3

According to metabolic theories of cancer, we all have many mutated cells around the body as a result of our constant exposure to toxins and stressors. The key issue is managing the metabolism to reduce the inflammation that will damage the mitochondria of those cells and flip them from just a mutation to a cancer (self replicating, own blood supply etc.). Keto will manage the low inflammation but to get rid of mutations before they can become something worse seems to be down to autophagy - hence fasting. Belt and braces as they say.

Amy Berger at TuitNutrition has done a good series of posts on this and has tons of links to further learning. This is a search result from the site for all the cancer posts.

As for fasting - join a Zorn fast (lots of people fasting for 2-4 days each month together giving mutual support via a thread), or try a stepped approach - 24hrs, 36 hrs, 48 hrs etc. to get to at least 3 days. I’m 2/3 of the way through my first 72 hr and may go further. Many many threads about how to get through fasting.

(Mary) #4

I’ve read both the CGtoF and the Obesity Code and got waaay more from the second. But thank for for the suggestion.

I agree with you re: the hunger signals and will practice ignoring them. I have lots of disordered eating issues, thanks to a lifetime of dieting, and have trouble stopping once I start eating. I also have an oddly delayed “full” signal and sometimes overeat before I can stop myself.

My vitals are: 56 y/o menopausal woman, 5’7", 223 lbs (up from 220 5 weeks ago :slightly_frowning_face:). I don’t have anything to test BS or ketones, although I’ve been considering the Keto Mojo. Haven’t had any blood tests in a few years but diabetes has never been mentioned by doctors; I think it’s a given that I’m extremely IR.

As far as my diet goes - coffee with way too much heavy cream; high fat cheese; bacon and eggs; the odd salad with home made blue cheese dressing (trying to avoid canola oil); fatty meat. Not all at once, obviously. Once my eating window opens, I’ll have some combination of the above. I’m working on drinking my coffee black but that’s a slow process.

Thank you for any insights you can offer but I think it’s just taking a while for my insulin levels to get low enough where I can access my fat stores. I never knew I could be this patient…

(Mary) #5

Thank you for the link to Tuit Nutrition, @Capnbob. It sounds like I’m heading in the right direction re: reducing inflammation and working towards fasting for autophagy. That’s a good idea to join the Zorn fast - it’s always nice to be surrounded by others doing the exact same thing :grinning:.

I’m interested to hear how your 72 (+?) fast goes.

(Rob) #6

48 hrs in and my biggest problem is what to do with the time I normally spend preparing, eating and cleaning up after meals. I have electrolyte drinks (ketoade) on hand, a bowl of pink salt for finger dipping and ketogenicforums.com to keep my hands and brain busy!

2 days, 2.2 lbs down…

The keto movement has been so massively energized by its diabetes reversing performance (no matter what the vegans say) and it looks like CVD is the next frontier of medical miracle but Cancer will be next. For treatment when you have a cancer it is amazing but the best thing will be the preventative benefits… which may never get the press of the reversals since what you don’t get, you don’t realize you avoided it! :grinning:

(Liz ) #7

I don’t know about cancer specifically though the 2 Keto Dudes have done some good podcasts on it, and the Obesity Code cancer podcasts are great, too.

You sound to me like you are right on track. I’m 48, I’ve been lower carb over a decade but I still started Keto like a newbie at 5’8” and 210lbs March 8 2017. I really battled impatience! I think that’s the hardest part of Keto tbh. It took me at least 6 weeks to become fat adapted. I knew it happened because suddenly I could skip breakfast no problem.

I lose very slowly, max 5 pounds per month, sometimes nothing, but there was so much healing I think had to happen inside that weightloss just wasn’t my body’s priority.

Now I’ve effectively stalled on the scale since the 9 month mark but have gone down TWO pants sizes. I’ve been IFing and EFing (46-70 hours each time) since September & at this point I need to continue like that, pushing my insulin levels ever downward, slowly over time.

When I fast I differentiate between head hunger and real hunger. Real hunger comes in a wave and goes again. Pink salt under the tongue will often shoo it away faster. Head hunger is more from habit & I need to employ behavior modification to distract myself away from that. Often I don’t feel a super uncomfortable hunger, more like a very empty feeling. I drink lots of herbal teas & sparkling water to get through.

I also think about autophagy & cannot drink black coffee lol, really, I tried so many ways but NOPE, so I take a caffeine pill on fasting days as black tea upsets my empty stomach.

I hope you hang in there & start losing like you hope, but definitely notice all the other good stuff along the way. For me, the biggest plus was my chronic aches completely disappeared. GONE. Cheering you on! KCKO

(Trish) #8

I also think you’re on the right track. The Zorn fast is on right now. I’m about 50 hours in on my second one. My understanding is that fasting is the best way to repair IR and get insulin levels down. If you find longer fasting hard perhaps alternate day fasting might work well for you. ?? Either way, pop on over to the zornfast page. It really makes a huge difference having group support.

(Mary) #9

That’s one of those “keto complaints”, right? :rofl:

I so hope you’re right on cancer being the next keto medical miracle…

(Mary) #10

Oh, I’m definitely hanging in there. I have to keep reminding myself about “the other good stuff” - no more heartburn, or joint inflammation, or bloat, or ridiculous mood swings, etc, etc…

Glad to hear your slow and steady approach is working.

(Mary) #11

Ok, that’s the second mention of the Zorn fast. Heading over now…