Fast/Feast vs Anorexia/Binging

(What The Fast?!) #1

Hi all! I’ve been doing a bit of fasting/feasting lately and someone asked me what the difference is between what I’m doing and being anorexic with food binging? The only answer I had was that mine isn’t psychological (though…that could be argued, because I’m fasting for weight loss). It got me thinking and I don’t really know how to answer the question. Thoughts?

(Sondra Rose) #2

Anorexics I know will over-exercise to work off a binge. Or restrict even more. They don’t have a choice about it in the way that non-sufferers of the disorder do.

(Bacon for the Win) #3

yeah, anorexia is a mental health issue while fasting is “dietary hacking!”

(Erin Macfarland ) #4

I have many things to say about this because I am recovering from anorexia. Anorexia isn’t something someone “chooses” nor can you “act” anorexic. Anorexia is a serious mental illness that is genetically based. It can affect anyone of any weight, any age, any background. I have just recorded an episode of the Keto For Women podcast and I go into great detail about my experience and what causes this illness. I could write a novel in response to this question but I will say that I believe to some extent regular fasting, especially extended fasting, has some elements of disordered eating, which is much different than anorexia. A person will not develop anorexia from restricting food unless they have the genes for the illness. But a “normal” person can develop disordered behaviors and thoughts around food, which would look like obsessing over food amounts, quality, timing, measuring, etc. I am not trying to get all the fasting advocates up in my grill here but as someone whose eating disorder revolved around keto and fasting, I can attest to what it is like when fasting becomes harmful. I think it is questionable that fasting, especially regular EF, is beneficial for health. I actually believe it can cause deleterious physical and especially mental problems, as our bodies and brains do NOT like to perceive we are in starvation. It is known that using the body’s own energy stores in the absence of food is a stressful event, regardless of how much you weigh. Put simply, the body does not like to lose weight and it does not like to perceive there is no food around. There are many, many misconceptions out there about eating disorders and I address them in my podcast. I hope you’ll listen when it airs! But I think fasting can end up working against people in the long run because it becomes simply too stressful to maintain, whereas doing something like IF or a once per month day long fast is manageable alongside eating lots of satisfying LCHF foods in sufficient quantities. That’s my opinion :wink:

(Erin Macfarland ) #5

@SondraRose I would like to point out that calling someone with anorexia an “anorexic” is like calling someone with cancer a “cancerian”. You would not equate someone with cancer with their illness, nor should we equate those with eating disorders with those disorders.

(Sondra Rose) #6

I apologize, Erin! I unconsciously used the word incorrectly. My bad. :frowning:

And as someone who was called an “asthmatic” for years by my docs (and hated it!), I should be more conscious of my word choices.

(Erin Macfarland ) #7

It’s quite alright @SondraRose, I just want to be sensitive to those who may have struggled with this illness. It is greatly misunderstood and part of healing from it for me has been educating people and bringing greater awareness to how serious eating disorders are. I appreciate your response, I’ll be sure to post my podcast episode when it airs!

(What The Fast?!) #8

Thanks Erin! I love hearing this. I agree - I am planning to do some longer EF’s with smaller refeeds because I just haven’t had any results with keto and I was worried that it may become a problem. I’m already obsessive over my food - I joined Shawn Mynar’s Fat Burning Female group and have only gained weight from it. Fasting seems like a quick fix to me and I always wonder about quick fixes…

BUT I know a lot of people are successful with fasting and have healed themselves as well. I know many people who said that keto didn’t really “work” for them until after their first really long fast (5days ish).

Thanks for sharing your story.

(Erin Macfarland ) #9

You asked an important question @KetoLikeaLady, and I agree fasting can be beneficial for healing more severe metabolic issues. But you also have to consider that it is a form of starvation and starvation in any form will take its toll mentally sooner or later. It might be doable for a year, or couple of years, but long term semi starvation is taxing on one’s psyche. Just something to consider, fasting and keto seem to be intertwined but I don’t think it’s beneficial for the majority of people doing keto to fast regularly long term.

(Chris) #10

I’m feasting on healthy foods. And I don’t see fasting as punishment for feasting.

(I want abs... olutely all the bacon) #11

I disagree with the use of the starvation term for extended fasting when an individual has a metabolism that can access sufficient stored energy in a fasted state. When I feast before/after an extended fast it is to increase and maintain a high metabolic rate and not to intake extra or “makeup” for lack of calories. I do not lack for energy on an extended fast.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #12

Fascinating topic! I look forward to seeing more of people’s thoughts. I am very familiar with craving and bingeing, and just how bad that has to get in order to become an eating disorder is a question in my mind. I would never have thought of fasting as a kind of eating disorder, and am intrigued to see how that discussion will play out.

I resisted the label of “sugar addict” for quite a while—not because it wasn’t true, just that I didn’t want it to be true, lol! Now that I’ve come to terms with it, I actually like thinking of myself as a sugar addict, because it clarifies a whole bunch of my mental processes and suggests ways of dealing with them. It’s very similar to how, in sobriety, I embrace the label of “alcoholic”—and why not? I certainly worked hard enough to qualify, lol! Of course, being a recovering alcoholic is very different from being an active alcoholic! I’m looking forward to experiencing the same difference between recovering from sugar addiction and active sugar addiction, too. :bacon:

(Erin Macfarland ) #13

@Becky I just want people to look at the psychological effects of long term extended fasting. I feel like they are downplayed when fasting “experts” promote the seemingly endless benefits of fasting without addressing the mental aspects of such a practice. I understand very well what you’re saying, but this is something that needs to be addressed in the conversation so that if people find themselves struggling after engaging in fasts for an extended period and it’s not solving all their problems as promised and it’s creating disordered behaviors and thoughts, they may want to re-examine their approach.

#14

I am finding the opposite, I have been doing 1 or more 5 days fasts a month since May. Lately I find I do not want to anymore. Not sure why

#15

Perhaps it’s unfortunate that we use feasting as the antonym to fasting. It would be better to go back to the biological terms, fasted state vs fed state. So the opposite of fasting is feeding. The difference is significant because feasting can imply over eating, which is not what fasting proponents like Dr Fong are advocating. The goal is to put your body in a fasted state for extended periods of time. And in a fed state within shortened​ periods of time. Not gorge or binge, just regular feeding.

I have never suffered from an eating disorder, so I’m not qualified to comment on that. What I can say is that extended fasting as a tool for weight loss, shouldn’t need to be employed for years on end ad nauseam. Fasting is pretty efficient at dropping pounds, Dr Fong estimates 0.5 lbs of fat loss per day. So if someone had 100 lbs to lose, it would take 200 days. Assuming these weren’t contiguous days, and allowing for some regain, let’s say it takes 150% longer, so 300 days, spread out over 3 years. The bottom line is, extended fasting for weight loss shouldn’t be a lifestyle. Use it to fix your metabolism, and move on to a maintenance phase that includes healthy eating and perhaps intermittent fasting.

Fast and then feed.

#16

So is someone with Diabetes not a diabetic?

(Erin Macfarland ) #17

@Wishbone I suppose if you want to call them that it’s your choice. But I don’t see the usefulness of equating a person with their illness, regardless of what it is. I personally do not like being referred to as an “anorexic “

(Doug) #18

I thought the same thing - ah, the vagaries of language…

#19

I am no longer a diabetic, but I am fat anorexic. I like to be honest with myself and not hide behind the curtains that made me fatter. But, each to their own.