Falling off keto and finding a way back to it might actually be the most common manifestation in the community

(Bunny) #8

I did hardcore strict keto with a few cheats here and their when going out to eat for almost two and half years and learned a lot of lessons and most important lesson learned is that this is still “experimental” and I can clearly see whymy over all assessment is reaching that conclusion; from hardcore experience despite the so called successes you see at Virta Health and other well documented case studies, but that does not mean that it scientifically validates this way of eating on a permanent basis. There are very big unanswered questions still looming in the background that nobody seems to be questioning or answering and some of those questions are:

“…Are we actually causing our own diabetes when we don’t already have it with this type of diet?” (e.g. postmortem studies on pancreatic beta cell numbers?)

“…should non-diabetics or pre-diabetic insulin resistant people be eating like this?..

“…originally used for pharmaceutical resistant epilepsy…”

…carbohydrate density absorption can be remedy with dietary fiber not just with carbohydrate restriction or caloric restriction…

“…when you look at the effects protein has on mTORC1 and 2 you would NOT be eating so much of it?”…”

You can only eat refined carbohydrates up to a certain point and then metabolic damage follows unless you are a body builder and have a real need for that kind of carbohydrate density especially a dose of fructose?

Sleep and not getting enough deep delta REM sleep is another cause of obesity and metabolic disease, I would bet my bottom dollar the majority of the worlds population have sleep apnea and don’t even know it from eating so often and so close to sleeping windows and the research proves it? Get a C-PAP machine and watch your body burn fat like a forest fire and how much energy you have and need for caffeine 0?

Bottom line we just eat too much and can derive more lessons learned from gastric bypass experiments i.e. “surgical treatment” is better example than a ketogenic diet of the primary cause of obesity and metabolic disease?

What it tells me:

“Hey STUPID you eat too much and too often that’s why your fat and metabolically unfit?”

#9

Change is friggin’ hard LOL
Change of anything that we have as a habit, formed our lives and our ‘traditions’ like big old Easter dinner or Christmas dinner extravaganza and more.

to me in full truth change is all about your commitment and absolutely about what info you have learned while doing your journey, and did you bother absorbing and listening to people who have ‘been there, done that’ cause that is what worked for me personally.

I searched out those who succeeded and made their journey fit into mine. I took all that suited my life from what they told me. That is how I got success and commitment and strength to change…not play at changing, I changed all in LOL

We will all detour and our lives will never be the same from birth to death and never be all the same medical issues and more.

but commitment into your personal cause must happen or nothing will change in the long term. Long term is key. You gotta want it and commit.

Fall, get up and commit harder but there must be the day I say I am all in no matter what and mean it. If not you aren’t there in your commitment to hold plan…but every drop we feel in eating off and how it effects us and more is learning.

At some point you have to not be the pupil and become the teacher ya know. You must graduate into achieving what you desire or why bother? For all of us it could be a longer time journey to achieve this end point, but it is there for all of it if we want it. At some point you have to go all in or why bother if we whine/backslide/and never learn and act on those full truths we have learned about ourselves along the way. Full truth of what we know where we should go…act on it long term and give some Umppftt to what ya desire in life, then success comes.

we all got it in us. we do, we have to believe it, desire it, make it happen in our life thru commitment and hard work and face detours and bob/weave/swerve as we must thru it all and educate ourselves.

after that, do ya want it bad enough truly to hold your new life long eating plan? Such a true personal question on that one.

#10

My mother used to say “Be kind to yourself” and I think it is excellent advice for everyone, specially me. I say “Speak to yourself gently, cause you listen to yourself”.

#11

I don’t have any philosophy to share, but your post resonated with me. I am often surprised and impressed by the number of forum regulars here who seem to fully embrace this as a permanent way of life, and have chalked up literally years of near-perfect keto eating. The mere concept of such an achievement is mind-boggling to me in its remoteness from where I am right now.

For my 37th birthday this year, I decided to start again. That is the story of my WOE at the moment (maybe for a year or more now) — a continual process of falling off, starting over, falling off, starting over. I’m pretty sure it’s taking me less and less time to snap back into low carb, as time goes on, but it’s hard to tell for certain. I just know that I feel better when I’m eating LCHF. When I’m not, the temptations of sugar and flour feel overwhelming (cookies, ice cream, chocolate, pasta, chips and drive-through fast food are my main weaknesses). Quite frankly, restricting carbs is really the only way I’ve ever found to cope with a lifelong pattern of addictive eating and bingeing on sugar. Personally I feel huge improvements in my wellbeing anywhere between the 25 and 50 net carb level, but maybe that’s simply in comparison to the 100s of carbage grams I eat when ‘off plan’. There’s rarely any moderate, middle ground! When on plan, I rarely manage to eat less than 25g NC… I am beginning to wonder if that is actually part of the reason why I keep falling off, and I would actually find it easier to restrict below 20g? But it’s all a bit of an experiment really. The latest part of my n=1 experiment is a tiny baked potato before bedtime - I’ve been reading “Potatoes Not Prozac” and want to boost my serotonin and improve my sleep. Who knows what I will discover?

This reply is getting a bit rambly now. But I have always found a deep and authentic vein of truth to Buddhist perspectives on craving and addiction. What is the answer to overcoming this? Probably awareness, meditation, mindfulness (so I’ve read). Honesty is likely an important step too. Thank you for your own honesty in sharing this post.

#12

“Failure is the opportunity to start over again more intelligently.”

— Henry Ford

“Nothing ever goes away until it has taught us what we need to know.”

— Pema Chodron

#13

Oh it is very familiar… But I did 80g net carbs for years and it worked for a while very well.
I think it’s worth to try to go lower. Just for a while, maybe you will be surprised. I surely was. I did keto with a generous amount of carbs (the lowest I could go at that point), tiny benefits, the huge benefit of fat adaptation but it lacked something. Multiple things. I am sure I had to do that at that point of my journey but it wasn’t ideal. I went lower (mostly forgot about plants) and it’s way better when I am able to do that (it’s raging fruit season in my garden and I have my limits) - and actually, it helped my off days too. Carnivore-ish is WAY easier for me than keto with plants (and not my old vegetarian keto, keto with meat and plants and others. it’s problematic, probably mentally and physically too, carbs often mess with me). I even know the “no middle ground” situation as I had that lately but my carby days are usually still low-carb. And I knew the feeling when one can’t eat below some limit for multiple days in row. But we can change, eventually :wink: (Except maybe the ones who needs more carbs for some reason.)
Maybe it would be better for you to go lower right away, maybe it will be better for you later… I needed almost a decade on low-carb, some very strong keto habits and a different relationship with vegetables to be able to go really low BUT I am a hedonist who doesn’t resist temptations and I was into my vegetables very much. Most ketoers start with a 20g net or total carb limit right away even without low-carb times first. But not everyone can do that. We have our individual circumstances, desires, demons, weaknesses… So we need our own keto style (or some other woe, keto isn’t for everyone).

Many of us experiment to find the best woe. Keto (in general, without any specifics about how to eat, only with the single carb limit for ketosis) may be just a start… It immediately works for some and others need tweaking or their woe simply evolves as time passes, circumstances, tastes, needs and goals change…

(Family, Honor, Freedom) #14

I went keto in March of 2019. By September I was down about 40 lbs and feeling good. Brains and bodies both work better burning fat, it seems.

But my fitness level wasn’t great so, in September, I set a goal of taking my daughter downhill skiing for her first time. If you’ve never been, snow skiing requires a rather high level of fitness to be enjoyable. Heck, just walking around in ski boots at high altitude requires a good bit above the couch potato level of fit.

So I hit the gym a lot, stayed keto, and, over Christmas, we went to Steamboat Springs and had a great time. Win!

Over the vacation, however, I allowed myself whatever carby food I wanted to have, except for sugary treats. And, since then, I haven’t hardly kept things under control at all. Also, being out of work due to the Panic has also not been helpful to my discipline.

So I’m back to the weight I was a year and a half ago, I’m out of shape again, and I can’t find where I’ve misplaced the motivation to get back in gear.

(Bob M) #15

I think it depends on your personality, and also how you treat food, and possibly other things. For instance, my wife was forced by her parents to eat less as a teen. That has harmed her. She mentally relies on food during stressful times.

Meanwhile, food for me is mainly a tool. And I have the ability (or possibly detriment?) to do what I say I’m going to do. If I say I’m fasting for 4.5 days, that’s what I do. If I say I’m eating keto, that’s what I do.

I still go “off plan” at times, but I always come back, and those times are relatively short. If I use food as a tool for depression or stress, it’s not for long. And eating the way I do has caused a better mood overall.

When I was eating low fat, high carb, I would feel good, but then get depressed or angry. Looking back, that was probably the blood sugar swings at least. Then, I’d start to drink, eat pizza, then eat ice cream. I’d snap out of it, go low fat again, repeat ad absurdium.

But with low carb, I don’t have depression. I don’t have mood swings (save very rarely). I don’t feel the need to drown in alcohol, pizza, ice cream.

And I think although low fat is a crappy way to live (my opinion), it also taught me things. For instance, when I eat cheese, I have no desire necessarily to eat more. I think that’s because I didn’t eat cheese for years. I never ate chips, pretzels, snack foods, fast food, either. For decades, I did not eat those. I therefore can eat some tortilla chips now and be done with them. I don’t want more.

And I have the ability to eat things like ice cream one day, and not want any more. It’s not a slippery slope for me.

But it is for many others.

#16

The motivation is here Dave. You wrote it. Read it. It will get you started again. This time you know you will feel great. No doubt.

#17

gold

#18

I get this. I did it twice. Lost 70 lbs eating low kcals and starved doing it and then of course ate junk and gained about 60 back…then I did 2 years of low carb up and down the scale, lost like 50 of that weight and then put on like 45 of that weight lost back on.

I tell ya that up and down…and we aren’t talking 4-5 lbs…we are talking almost all regain is a mind killer. All the negative ya know we put on ourselves. And the final thought for me was: why bother? If it comes back like that why bother? It is super hard to say one more time!

What I did was I realized in full truth to myself the only way to improve my health was to stay on plan. There is no magic pill, wishing it away, thinking about starting and never doing that wasn’t gonna work LOL believe me I prayed for the lbs. gone and great energy all the time but prayers didn’t work either :smile:

One thing gets results and we all know it. Stay on plan. The plan that works for you is the plan that controls your health. We all who have been up and down in lbs we lost and regained know that only one thing works…get on plan and stay there.

So I did that. And I dropped 50 lbs AGAIN and am losing my last 20-25 I want gone…but in the end it was so simple yet I complicated it so much. Just stay on plan. And have hit that now for like 3 years tight on 0 carb and decided no matter how fast I lose lbs. it would never be my focus…you know that killer focus of MUST lose lbs…I said to myself I will eat the best darn meals I want ON PLAN, eat well, relax and stay on plan. Successful long term people who lost, feel better and improved health and are holding those results are people WHO STAY on plan. They said that is the secret to it all. Stay on plan. And it sucks ya know HAHA I wanna suck down ice cream/French fries and more junk…we all do mostly LOL but in the end if it takes XYZ then I am just gonna do XYZ.

So everyone finds their way back again and when they do, my best advice is just hold plan. My goals now are each meal. Each and every meal be on plan. Last of the lbs are coming off slowly, I feel wonderful with energy and in the end only one things means anything to me every daily,…my meal has to be on plan.

I jhaven’t found any way around any of that for me LOL, I tried…but in the end on plan is where I have to be to be the best me :slight_smile: So in the end it is a hard acceptance knowing I have to stay here on plan to make it work. I can’t moderate. On plan is key for me at all times, but when I started…for my last darn time cause I was so over this gain and lost crap…I said truthfully to myself…I will stay on plan. It was so simple to say, kinda tough to get rolling and do but in the end it is what worked for me.

I sure hope you find your way back and motivation to hit plan and grab on for the ride :slight_smile: Most of us have been there, most of us do make it back and succeed again :sunny: I bet you will get in gear and start again and find that improved health you are wanting :wink:

(Family, Honor, Freedom) #19

Took me awhile, @Fangs, but I’m back. Day 4 of a brand new fast.

“Stay on plan”. What’s my plan? Yeah, that might be a problem. My plan right now is to fast for as long as I think it’s still good for me. After that, though, I do need a plan.

Still - eating healthy, keto meals was never difficult. I have a wife who supports my efforts to get healthy and, when she’s not around, I tend to make or order good food.

My problem is the TV. I cannot sit and watch something for very long without getting antsy and HAVING to go get stuff to cram down my throat. Might be pickles, cheese, sunbutter. But not always. And it’s always more than I should be eating.

I think I just have to say, no TV for me after dinner. That’s the plan then. Find something else to do after dinner. It’s not like I don’t have plenty of neglected projects around the house.

#20

Yes you have to have a plan. You need that structure that you can depend on at all times. That list of foods you know you do well on and can eat easily and feel great, kinda like a control structure in plan to always give you that feeling of safety. A plan in place is a good thing and you will find yours :slight_smile:

Yea. That tv or boredom eating. Habit. Pure habit. I had to break that also and darn if it wasn’t hard. What I did was sip tea. Hot liquid. I don’t drink tea anymore…but to break that darn snacking habit I switched to sipping hot tea and it curbed that want to shove snacks in my face. I did have to fight thru it to change that habit and I finally got to where I didn’t need snacks anymore, but I did rely on snacks during transition time into my plan and they helped, but then that boredom/tv snack time was just a nasty habit that had to go. You can battle it :slight_smile: Just gotta give it time and work on it!!

#21

It’s interesting what you say about the TV. Well identified. The same could be said for social media apps.

I think it is stressful to load up on the problems of the world as they appear in the media, or in movies or TV shows. That stress pushes up the cortisol, releasing glucose into the blood so we can fight, flee, freeze (in-place) or freak out, and that drives the hunger straight toward old bad habits like snacking, I think.

(Probably should have read Fangs’ reply before typing this as she has likely covered all this with the added bonus of getting us ‘on plan’)

#22

yes so agree but even if you are watching that ‘good show on tv’ ya love then you wanna celebrate it with good snacks too HAHA

can’t win on that one I think other than change our habits. Work in progress on all of us I think at some point in our lives.

also ya know…eating ON PLAN food while watching tv or just to snack is not wrong. Never will be. As long as you are eating your plan foods then you are OK and there should be no guilt. But key to it all is why are you snacking out of control? tv/boredom/stress etc or just that habit we all have learned and enjoy? OR IS YOUR meals not good enough…that was a biggie for me. Key was eat all you need well and the snacking truly gets so much easier to handle and deal with in breaking that habit. A full nourished body doesn’t require snacks so everyone eat darn well in their meal choices first, start there :wink:

#23

I agree that finding a new habit is beneficial as long as it’s healthy for you. We enjoy watching a little Netflix in the evening as a way to transition into bedtime. I have a cutoff time for eating, too, so that helps. My DH likes to have a dessert while watching a show (LC/K), and I, more than not, join him. I portion out the dish, and at the same time I will make a cup of tea. Sipping on the cup of tea really helps me to move away from having any more dessert/snack. It keeps my mouth and hands busy.

#24

I probably would go with the tea route myself… :wink: If I want to consume something but I am not hungry (and I am good so I really don’t eat some food), I drink tea or coffee. Or carbonated water, it’s always fun to me…
I never had this tv/movie snacking, it’s very weird to me. I watch something, why would I eat? I like to focus on my precious food. And whatever I watch, that needs attention too. The only exception happened with peanut and some not too important relaxing video watching but my peanuts lasted 1-2 mins and I went back to my coffee (I drink coffee at 2am as well, it doesn’t matter to me as far as I know. but I usually stop it around 10pm, I am a thirsty one at night so I drink a lot of water).

Something else that would work for me: being very, very, very full so eating is simply out of question, no matter what. I like eating, I have an overeating past (but I was often hungry and now I am very rarely so), little food makes no sense to me and food is one of my most important joys and I find this perfectly normal - but if I am completely full, my desire to eat turns off. Right food choices, bigger, very delicious meals - and I don’t get tempted for a long time, zero willpower is needed.

(Family, Honor, Freedom) #25

TV watching doesn’t generally hold my attention. If I’m really into the show, then I’m fine. But that’s unusual - so I start looking for a secondary distraction: food, phone, something.

I don’t have that problem with video games - just TV.

So totally agree. Besides one other thing, there’s nothing I consistently enjoy more than food. Fasting is truly a deprivation for me. But it works.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #26

Robert Cywes, a bariatric surgeon in Florida, finds that with the vast majority of his patients, the challenge to low-carb eating is dealing with addiction to carbohydrates. He says that he himself keeps a cup of coffee constantly nearby to deal with his addiction.

There are strategies for dealing with any addictive substance or form of behaviour. Firstly, most addicts find complete abstinence easier to manage than engaging in the substance or type of behaviour in moderation. That said, however, there is a psychological element to abstinence. I know that telling myself that I could no longer eat sugar for the rest of my life would send me to Dunkin’ Donuts in a heartbeat.

Instead, I borrow a page from the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous and tell myself that tomorrow, I can eat all the glazed doughnuts I want, just not any today. (Or sometimes, just not for the next five minutes.) As a psychological strategy, temporarily postponing my indulgence in my substance of choice works well. Just getting through one day at a time is a lot more manageable than facing a lifetime of “deprivation.”

(Family, Honor, Freedom) #27

That’s helpful - I’d forgotten that trick. Need to remember it.

Having tea will be good too.

One thing on the “5 minutes” aspect - that only works if I change the trigger. So, sitting in front of the TV, it’s not hard to postpone grabbing some food for 5 minutes. Another 5 minutes after that might be doable too. But, eventually, I’m going to give in unless I get up from the TV and do something more engaging. Or go to bed.