F 46 5'5 Autoimmune Disease Perimenopausal Low Carb since Dec 2021+ ADF=Still No Energy

newbies
fasting
(Ina) #1

Hello all,

I’ve been browsing your wise and well versed/well educated posts for a couple of months and wanted to thank you ALL for every post inquiry AND contribution you’ve made in helping fellow newbs and lurkers like myself even if it was just your own N=1 opinions, they are all extremely valuable as no two peoples’ experiences are the same.

I’m new to KETO WOE and am still tweaking my diet/eating windows. I started Dec 2, 2021 at I think about 156 lbs-ish (highest weight ever was 165 lb from a lifelong normal adult weight of 130-135), 5’5, F, 46 years old perimenopausal, having the following illnesses; Lupus, alopecia areata, minor heart block, fibromyalgia, uterine fibroids, small pleural plaque in 1 lung, sudden idiopathic dizzy spells, hands/feet/lips freezing & clenching in place occasionally and having had a minor heart attack in 2021. But otherwise currently; normal blood pressure, normal heartbeat resting or otherwise, A1C 5.3, borderline high normal cholesterol, all blood tests & hormone tests are perfect except for positive ANA (of course w.lupus).

My most recent weight 10 days ago or so: 141.2 lb. I don’t weigh often as I understand fluctuations occur so drastically and may be demoralizing.

My former diet ranged from atrocious aka dining out 3x/day + Starbucks + Happy Hour food/liquor in my 30’s to fairly cleaned up and healthy in my 40’s due to dealing with illnesses, so no liquor at all, no sugar, but still ate “healthy carbs” including wheat based whole foods & lots of fruit/carby veg.

In my 30’s I used to run/exercise daily, even completed a few marathons, felt great, did HIIT, resistance training. After I turned 40 I had onset of so much chronic fatigue & bone/muscle/joint pain it would cause tears fairly frequently and a sudden weight gain due to immobility from pain. Even breathing was becoming labored. This prompted me to finally seek out a PCP, priorly I had never been to any doctors as I didn’t care for them and felt super healthy and fit. But the sudden degeneration and lethargy left me feeling like I was in my 80’s, not just entering my 40’s.

I have some issues with selecting food and net carb math. I do ADF where I only drink water or gentle brewed tea every other day, no food, no fats whatsoever. I do take a break from ADF every 3 weeks for about 1-2 weeks so as not to acclimate metabolism. I end up with a NET carb count on eating days of 30-60g. I wonder if this is still considered KETO? I feel like I’m “fat adapted” as I’m never hungry. I only get gentle reminders of hunger which ameliorate with salt & water intake.

During my 1-2 weeks off dieting I’m still low carbing but not being as strict as per usual as I am dining out with friends & family most of the time. I really love ADF as I don’t have to weigh, measure, count/log ANY FOOD on my non-eating days! That becomes so inconvenient and loathesome I don’t think I could tolerate it on a daily basis myself.

Another maybe issue is I also love cottage cheese, Greek yogurt, cheese, macadamia-Brazil-walnuts-almonds, and my low carb veg; artichoke hearts, whole avocados, romaine hearts, green cabbage, bell peppers, jalapenos, green onions, spinach, mushrooms, and occasionally the not so low carb onions, garlic, tomatoes, spaghetti squash, eggplant. I know there are some long time KETO folks who recommend staying away from dairy & nuts and even most vegetables but I don’t have issues with lactose, lectins or oxalates and love these foods. I tend to eat a lot of veg, hence my higher net carbs. I still wonder if eliminating these food items will help heal me metabolically/inflammation-wise faster?

I was never a big meat or seafood eater but eat it regularly now in small quantities. I eat 1/2 a block of organic non-gmo firm tofu always as I love tofu. Are there issues with tofu on KETO?

I’ve also been eating Wholesome liquid allulose on eating days for fat burning (have read human studies) and for the sweet taste value but wonder if the insulin response is worth it? I don’t eat a lot of it but that and erythritol (& pork rinds) are my only heavily processed food items I allow in my diet. I used to be addicted to sugar/carbs, which has now fully abated with low carbing, but the occasional sweet taste is mentally missed so that’s why I use them, ie in my occasional coconut flour muffins, to flavor Greek yogurt, etc.

I also do NOT EVER have that amazing burst of energy or mental clarity KETO is known for at 2 months 1 week+ in on low carbing and wonder if I ever will? Maybe due to my illnesses I am having issues in that regard. I can almost guarantee I’m now fat adapted as fasting is super easy and I feel absolutely no impending hunger on any day. I am used to fasting for 5-7 consecutive days though and will be reincorporating those EFs once I feel healthier.

I also get mild-moderate headaches frequently low carb whereas before I rarely ever had headaches. I do supplement quite a bit including but not limited to; 2-3 tsp salt, potassium citrate, magnesium citrate, zinc picolonate, D3, K2, E, C, etc.

I’m still tweaking, observing, noting my body & mind’s response to this WOE and will offer those inputs when I can as well.

Thank you for reading this obscenely lengthy intro post.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #2

You will sometimes see people make a distinction between “low-carb” and “keto” on the basis of the amount of carbohydrate consumed, but regardless of how much carbs you are eating, your diet is definitely keto if your liver is producing ketone bodies (acetoacetate, acetone, and β-hydroxybutyrate). The key is to get insulin low enough to permit ketogenesis, which is stimulated by the hormone glucagon (secreted by the α-cells of the pancreas) and inhibited by insulin (secreted by the β-cells of the pancreas). And getting insulin low enough to permit ketosis depends on eating carbohydrate below a certain threshold, which varies from individual to individual.

On these forums, we recommend a limit of 20 g/day of carbohydrate, because it’s a level low enough to get virtually everyone into ketosis. The only exceptions are people whose insulin-resistance is very high, and who therefore greatly overproduce insulin in response to a given amount of glucose in the blood stream. Carbohydrates are nothing more than glucose molecules arranged in various ways. If they are indigestible, we call them fibre; if digestible, their glucose goes right into the blood stream and raises our blood sugar, so you see why they are to be avoided.

Whether to count your total carb intake or only your net carbs is your choice, but the less carbohydrate you eat, the likelier you are to see the results you want. How to count net or total carbs varies from region to region:

  • In North America: Nutrition labels in North America show total carbs in the nutritional panel where it says “carbohydrate.” To calculate net carbs, you have to subtract the fibre amount shown under “fiber.”
  • In the rest of the world: Nutrition labels everywhere else show net carbs in the nutritional panel where it says “carbohydrate.” To calculate total carbs, you have to add the fibre amount shown.

You can minimise the calculating by limiting your carb intake to salad greens and such vegetables as broccoli and cauliflower. The former are great vehicles for high-fat salad dressings; the latter are very tasty with cheese sauce. Eating fresh, whole foods eliminates the confusion from the different styles of nutrition labels. You don’t have to stay away from dairy unless you are lactose-intolerant or react badly to any of the milk proteins.

(Robin) #3

Nothing obscene in that lengthy post. As you know from all your reading here, we like more information when someone joins us. So, you did good!

Your weight sounds okay for your height. Are you going keto for all the other issues you have going on? Besides being peri menopausal (aren’t your 40s so much fun?!) you have some real health challenges. I am hopeful most of them can see some improvement or relief. For sure, you will see tremendous results in your energy and mental clarity and just an overall feeling of being an active partner with your own body. (Not sure that made sense…?)

Anyway, welcome. Glad you are here!

(Ina) #4

Thank you for your reply Paul, I certainly appreciate it. I haven’t measured ketones per blood ketone meters as of yet, hate needles. I just ordered urine keto test strips from Amazon and yes I understand they are much less reliable, if at all, but no needles! Hopefully I will measure some ketone activity. I will update once I start testing.

(Ina) #5

Thank you for your warm welcome Robin! Yes, I am eating low carb (hopefully & eventually strict KETO) primarily to heal my autoimmune induced chronic inflammatory conditions as well as for metabolic resetting. The weightloss is wonderful and I hope to lose down to 110-115 lbs, there’s no rush to achieve this though. I was healthy at 130-135 for most of my adult life BUT that was when I was able to retain a LOT of lean body mass via working out/being active. Now I have so much fat everywhere, it’s kind of a gross feeling. I should get my DEXA scan done to measure exactly how much fat I’m carrying both viscerally & subcutaneously, I’ll guess approximately 35%.

Hitting my 40’s has been a sucker punch to the face :triumph:. I’m just hoping the German KETO gentleman on this forum doesn’t pop on this thread to tell me my wildly deviating female hormone fluctuations has nothing to do with my inability to “feel” all the wondrous energetic benefits of KETO WOE as of yet!

I also have a history of heart disease and cancers on both sides of the family, primary worries are the uterine, colon/gastric, breast cancers on maternal side for which I’ve had genetic testing for and thankfully am not positive for hereditary cancers though that’s a small relief as genetic testing can only confirm fractional amounts of cancers they mutate so much and so often.

I’ll keep updating on this thread of my further progress/regression as they occur for other people to note, if that’s OK with admins.

(Ina) #6

I was RAVENOUS when I began low carb in December 2021 and there were days I ate up to 4,000 calories. There were also days where I only ate 1,200 calories as appetite regulated itself in time.

Month of Dec 2021 avg daily calories, I didn’t keep full macros due to holidays/new years as I wasn’t using an app then but digitally logging in all weighed food;
1,946 calories

Month of Jan 2022 avg daily macros:
1,670 calories, 87.57g protein, 120.12g fat, 26.76g fiber
(20.98% protein, 64.74% fat, 14.29% carbs, 7.88% net carbs=32.9g NET CARBS)

I also take 18mg iron every other day and etc supplements not listed in my initial post.

I lost most of my fat (14.8lbs - water & some LBM weight) from my abdominal area, fat had accumulated there quite a bit over the past few years due to a sedentary life from dealing with flaring and chronic autoimmune diseases.

Autoimmune diseases also puts your cells in a chronic state of inflammation, hence why I adopted low carb/Keto WOE. I normally did not eat meat/seafood OR much fat regularly so it was quite a 180 flip for me diet-wise. But eating with my listed avg daily macros hasn’t caused any digestive issues. I also eat flaxmeal (as well as all organic & grass fed grass finished) and I think that helps digestion in transition.

I still hope and long for SOME increased energy and mental clarity, this I have not achieved as of yet AT ALL.

I’ve also been suffering from frequent headaches. I wonder if the headaches are from the allulose/erythritol consumption. I’ll have to try eliminating them completely for 2 weeks to test this theory.

I hope my posts and updates help others in some way.

(Edith) #7

A few thoughts here: Just because you don’t have problems with lactose, doesn’t mean you can’t have problems from the milk proteins themselves. I am not lactose intolerant, but the proteins give me rashes and terrible joint pain.

How do you know oxalate doesn’t cause you trouble? It’s possible some of your problems could be related to oxalate building up in your body over the years. I had no idea I had oxalate build up until I tried carnivore and then a few weeks in, I started dumping it. Once I learned what was going on, it explained a lot of issues I was having.

A number of the vegetables you mentioned are nightshades. Some people believe they can cause inflammation.

Sorry, that’s all I have time for at the moment.

#8

The headaches could be low blood sugar, which could imply you are not fat adapted and perhaps not consuming enough fat/calories. It could also be blood pressure related caused from electrolyte fluctuations going from eating carbs one day and then nothing the next, you will urinate out a lot of water and salts on the fasting days. Just something to experiment with.

(Marianne) #9

Hello, and welcome! Like you, I lurked here for several weeks before posting and even getting the courage to start.

Several things jumped out at me throughout your introduction. Unlike a lot of us, you don’t have much weight to lose. I came here for the weight loss and discovered that the health benefits of the keto WOE are just as significant. For you to experience that, I believe you need to get your carbs at 20 or under/day and I’d recommend total carbs (not net). I’d also increase your fat consumption, meeting or exceeding your fat macro every day at least for the first 2-3 months. Both of these values are important to change your metabolism to fat burning and to begin cleansing your body of all the toxins and inflammation from a carb heavy/processed food diet.

When I started keto, I was pretty infirm and feeling years beyond my age. I felt really screwed and scared about my future. Everything hurt, especially my joints. Within two weeks of starting keto, all of that changed dramatically. I think it was due to the loss of inflammation. I had never felt better, and that just kept increasing the longer I was on this. Three years later, I consider myself in optimal health and have a new appreciation for life.

There are many keto friendly foods that I love - nuts, cheese, cream cheese, etc., and they are so binge worthy to me that I either do not have them or severely restrict them. That’s just the way it is - for me. You have things that you love, too, however, sometimes those things have to fall by the wayside to be replaced by other alternative you still enjoy. I consider them like many of the foods I used to just love (pasta, potatoes, sweets, baked goods, chips, etc.) - off limits - but it’s a reality I can live with. I’d still enjoy your romaine hearts and low carb veggies and make your own blue cheese dressing (you can whip that up in less than five minutes), and enjoy one of your meals with them in a salad and have that be the extent of your carbs for a day. If you eat 2-3 meals a day, maybe just have carbs at one of them. Add more of the low carb things (romaine, cabbage), and less of the higher carb veggies. (FYI, cabbage cooked in a pound of ground beef is amazing - and you don’t need to drain the fat! Delicious and quick.)

I’d also ditch the fasting for now. Give yourself permission to eat and allow your body to heal. IDK, but I wonder if your headaches are because you aren’t getting enough food and/or fat. I did fast regularly for many months, however, I discovered I really don’t like it and stopped, other than eating OMAD or in an 18:6 window, which is what I came to as a natural progression only. I’d also ditch the pee strips or other measurements. Insignificant and unreliable - just keep the carbs under 20/day, get enough fat, and you will be in ketosis.

I only tracked (loosely) in the beginning, until I knew the values of the keto foods I most commonly ate. I completely stopped weighing myself, except at the doctor’s. In addition, I never made any “recipes” or did any elaborate keto cooking - totally not for me. Breakfast was easy and the same; lunch I just threw together out of the fridge; dinner was a flash seared piece of meat and a steamed vegetable. Still delicious but so easy and liberating. Dinners out with friends were not difficult to me - I’d stick to the same formula and never waivered (strip steak or something, salad and/or low carb vegetable, and asked them not even to plate the other stuff) - and I’d eat the whole steak.

We all have to find what works for us. I know you will get lots of comments and suggestions from the great people here. These are mine. Best to you as you learn and grow in your program!

(Ina) #10

Hi Edith,

Actually, I went through 1 month long processes of elimination for each food items; soft cheeses, hard cheeses, nightshades, protein sources including tofu, etc. No rashes, no additional OR alleviating fatigue/joint pain. And yes, tested non-lactose intolerance nor celiac via food allergy tests.

I also do not eat tomatoes and eggplants often, they are occasional foods as mentioned, just 2oz bell peppers.

I think it’s difficult to comprehend if people don’t suffer from not only Lupus, a rheumatological disease, but also a host of complicated combined health issues.

Thank you for the input!

(Ina) #11

Hi Andy,

I feel as though I’m mostly “fat adapted”, which as I understand can only be based on n=1 experiences, just from feelings of complete satiety as well as no real absolute hunger. Headaches may be as you said related to low blood sugar as I’ve had issues in my 30’s & 40’s with low blood sugar episodes unrelated to keto or low carb-related diets.

I feel like I am eating enough on my eating days but may try your suggestion to up my fat intake.

The only real carbs in my diet are from soft cheeses & vegetables, I log in all my weighed food onto an app. You may be right about the electrolytes dumping on my fast days that cause blood pressure fluctuations, but I also take salt & other electrolytes on my fasting days so unsure about that?

I drink at least 2L of liquids/day along with added 2-3 tsp salt, magnesium, potassium, zinc, calcium in the form of homemade eggshell powder, etc.

Thank you for your thoughts!

(Ina) #12

Hi Ginger’s Mommy,

Thank you for your thoughtful and detailed response!

I had been <20g net carbs the 1st 2 weeks in Dec 2021 transitioning into low carb. I haven’t tried <20g total carbs yet so may try that to attempt for a faster healing response (hopefully some energy increase).

With serious autoimmune diseases, which cause chronic inflammation, and specifically for Lupus, a rheumatological disease imposing pain in joints, muscles, bones, a KETO diet or any dietary change cannot rid inflammation completely per all medical studies having been researched but I’m sure chronic inflammation may be reduced or controlled, hence my current WOE. I forgot to note that I also have low blood circulation issues, maybe that’s the source of ongoing fatigue.

I understand it may take years, as it took you, to achieve some form of feelings of optimal health so am wholeheartedly in it for that purpose!

I don’t tend to binge on foods I love, it’s only the carb content I was concerned about with soft cheeses and so much low carb veg in my diet. Yes, I also make my own cesar salad dressing. I’ll try blue cheese as well.

ADF feels very relieving for me, both mentally and physically (digestive-wise) and I actually look forward to those days, today in fact :grinning:. I ate SO MUCH in Dec transitioning to low carb, there were days I ate 4,000 calories! But now appetite has regulated itself. I would love to do an 18:6 eating window like you on my eating days but haven’t attempted it as of yet. I usually eat from 8am - 6/7pm on my eating days so 10-11 hr widow. I’ve read the best windows for women my age and being perimenopausal is between 11am-3pm, only a 4 hr window!

I may try to up my fat as that seems to be the concensus for top problem solving!

I also don’t weigh myself regularly as weight isn’t a top priority for me, just the alleviation of some symptoms of inflammation.

I feel like I have to weigh all foods, whole foods or created recipes I’ve cooked, due to the fact that eyeballing measurements could result in carbs creeping in. The only carbs I worry over are the soft cheeses, nuts, and low carb veg (including avocados and artichoke hearts, forgot to mention them) as combined they always result in my NET 30g+ carbs/day. I love veg and eat a lot of it ie I can eat 1.5 lbs organic romaine hearts for a meal even without my cesar dressing! I think eating so much low carb veg is definitely a carb issue for me. Eating more meat/seafood is a bit revolting even at this stage in my diet but I am trying to correct that.

Thank you for your suggestions! God bless you on your journey as well!

(Marianne) #13

Sounds like you have a pretty well defined path which is grounded in sound principles. Looking forward to hearing how you are doing!

#14

We people have different experiences on the same style of keto and we may need a different style for most benefits.
I never got more energy and IDK what is the mental clarity people talk about, I always was happy enough with mine even on high-carb (except I am a zombie before noon but nothing helps with that).
But it seems going lower with my carbs may help a little…? It’s not an immediate chance as with many other things though… I get basically no benefits from mere ketosis but if I go very low-carb (total too as I mostly avoid non-carnivore food and I don’t drink milk… it’s hard to go significantly over 20g total that way ;)), that’s Very Different! Still no fat-loss or super energy, my fasting abilities are ruined too BUT I somehow lose the whole chaos that (plant) carbs seem to do even on keto. For others, it’s certain items, not the amount of plant carbs. Some people have problem with certain animal items too. It’s quite complicated.
So I am all for experiments. Elimination, different timing, whatever seems a good idea and realistic. If it seems impossible, it doesn’t always truly that probably all of us have certain points we want to keep if possible…

30-60g net carbs is a lot, it’s individual if it’s keto. It may be keto on some days and not on some others. But maybe it’s keto for you all the time. My own personal carb limit isn’t low but I only get benefits being low so my goal is staying low.
I was a veggie lover (I hated most leaves though, that didn’t help with the carbs) but I hung out with carnivores and somehow I lost interest in most.
I never lost interest in fruits though but I don’t NEED them anymore so avoiding them for some time is fine. But I know carbs can add up so easily… And they may bring their pals. If I don’t start to eat them in significant amounts to begin with, it’s way easier.

Good luck! It’s good we have so many options so even very low-meat times may be fine (I had to do some vegetarian days lately, well that’s tricky as carbs come easier and they mess things up). I didn’t add meat to my keto in the first several years, that’s one reason my carb intake was so high, not <20g carbs, not even net… It’s possible to go below 20g total without meat but tricky, I can’t do that and wouldn’t do that longer term anyway.
But having meat just not much? That should work. You don’t necessarily need much meat on keto. (I don’t even need very much meat on carnivore either but it’s more important there and sometimes I do need much. Like, more than a pound. That’s much to me.)

Oh and of course, having much energy has so many factors. Even if you eat perfectly, maybe something else is off. I have low-energy if I exercise little, don’t get enough fresh air, sleep is very important, of course…etc. But you probably know all this. Just saying. Keto isn’t magic.

(Ina) #15

Dear Shinita,

Thank you for sharing your lovely message and WOE history with me, I had read many of your posts prior to creating this thread and they were so helpful and encouraging! Yes, it is super important to note for others looking into Keto that KETO isn’t a panacea, doesn’t solve every dysregulation of metabolism, illness, etc, nor is it for every person! And I understood that reading posts like yours!

I also don’t drink milk, just eat soft cheeses ie cottage cheese, brie, camembert, Greek yogurt. I love cheese both soft and hard!

I’m amazed that you and other carnivores can be on such a diet longterm! I do occasionally like rare ribeye steaks, sashimi, King/Dungeoness crab, lobsters, prawns, raw oysters, etc, but if I had to eat it daily I already know it would be a near impossibility for me! But it’s great to know that WOE helps a subset of people feel their best!

I so hope that by eating low carb and/or eventually strict KETO (with <20g TOTAL CARBS on eating days) I will be able to feel some increase in energy. But even if that truly doesn’t occur along with attaining the mythical mental clarity(!) I hope this WOE helps in some way with the inflammatory response from having chronic autoimmune issues.

Having lost some amount of fat I had accumulated (mostly in my belly) over the past recent years I do feel better for it. I was already estrogen dominant but I think excess estrogen & toxins stored in those fat cells being released, re-circulated, then eliminated made me feel awful at first but better in my current state.

I will continue to tweak, reset, work with my dietary choices and eating windows as well as test my personal carb limits and update on this thread how it’s working out (or not) for me. I also wish you the absolute best in your health journey and in finding that elusive energy!

#16

You are very nice, I am glad when my more or less braindumps have some use and it’s always surprising to get a nicer response than that they deserve!
Oh I am horrible, I am no carnivore, just flirt with that woe as that works best for me - when I can do it, I can get bored of my food way too easily sometimes. I can’t stick to keto let alone carnivore (though it’s easier to stick to carnivore than normal keto, in my case at least). But I do try. Not too hard as that backfires. And I do low-carb since ages, I evolved a bit.
I barely ate any meat until 2 years ago, maybe that’s why I can’t eat much meat - but I can eat eggs so that helps :wink:

Hopefully we both will find our near ideal woe that isn’t too hard to stick to in the not too far future!
Sometimes it feels I am close but something happens again… It’s not so easy for all of us. Some people just start keto and they get everything in no time. It’s good I am not an envious type (it’s not hedonistic so if I try to feel that, I stop. And I have so many things I can be grateful anyway).

(Jane) #17

The standard response on ketone urine strips is “they stop working after you are fat adapted” and to throw them away. That applies to most people BUT NOT ALL. I started keto in Dec 2017 and I can still turn the strips pink and dark purple on multi-day fasts.
:woman_shrugging:

Welcome to the forum!

My own motto is “I came for the weight loss and stayed for the health benefits”. My husband’s motto would be “I went keto to support my wife and hated hated hated it !!!” Then after his withdrawal symptoms from carbs got better “I am (reluctanly) staying for the health benefits” LOL.

(Ina) #18

Hello Janie,

Thank you for letting me know you still show ketones on those darned error-prone urine keto test strips AFTER being 4+ years on KETO!! That’s awesome, a total Keto veteran!! I will also still use the testing strips just to see for myself though I’m not desperate for the highest ketone readings just wondering if they will show any!

Your hubby sounds like a wonderful life partner to have and not just for on your dietary/health journeys! My very best wishes to you both on your continued success and thank you so much for your warm welcome!