"Exercise is not an effective tool for weightloss" is nonsense

(Erin Macfarland ) #14

I agree with this 100%! And starting exercise leads to being more active overall. Certainly there are diminishing returns for exercising (too much high intensity or hours upon hours of cardio can result in more harm than good physically and psychologically) but I too think exercising can lead to weight loss not necessarily through caloric expenditure but through the mechanisms you described.

(Mark Rhodes) #15

One of the many reasons I enjoy our forum are posts like your. Strong opinion backed by experience and in between the lines are the science. Just loved reading this! Some comments that I have had over the years that have been honed since starting this WOL:

I used to wonder why I could not take off my inner tube belly while running 70 mile weeks. I ran those for years. I ran two half marathons every week on my distance days. Still the belly fat would not come off. Of course I was eating low fat high carb and high protein ( I lived in a zone of 45-40-15) but the only explanation that made sense then to me was this: My body has become far more efficient running and I did not require 100 calories per mile. I believed somewhat accurately that my metabolism altered itself while running. What I could not grasp then was it was ALSO doing this all throughout the day.

I also understand that muscle is more energy consuming and so you will increase your metabolism at that smaller size.

Back in exercise physiology classes I remember a bell curve for athletic people. The rate of injury was higher and so was rate of recovery. Along with that active people did not have injuries from falling in a parking lot kind of injuries.

On a second graph I recall was that athletic people on average lived 6 months longer. YET those last ten years were not plagued with hospitals and medications to the extent of the nominal population.

Thanks again!!

#16

@marklifestyle

Yes, this is a wonderful forum!

Agree- CICO doesn’t work well on the eating side of things, and it’s no more effective on the exercise end.

It’s true what you mention about injury: it’s not only active folks who get injured, and they probably usually have quicker recovery.

Also love your last point. In the end, it’s really all about quality of life (and that’s not just true in our last 10 years!).

#17

That visual of 181 female pounds above is marvelous and can go far in correcting the rife miseducation on weight vs. composition, thank you! Many females especially would benefit from seeing it. (Like, as an admin pinned post or something).

Exercise is a vast topic that requires nuanced understanding and thought related to which type it is, and what states of health/metabolism the bodies that are doing it are in! Indeed, some types of stressful exercise/training are not recommended during keto adaptation phase - and embarking on exercise while morbidly obese can create new injuries or health risks! Exercise is a VERY effective tool for weightloss when it’s the right time for a particular person’s health - but figuring out the right & effective exercise is just about as controversial as questioning the food pyramid!

In sedentary industrial culture, exercise for non-obese people can provide a natural anti-depressant action, and assist in paying attention to the body. On the other hand though - significantly obese people exercise every time they get out of a chair (and thus usually have significant body muscle strength and muscle mass in the lower body).

There can also be huge differences between exercise for enjoyment/athletic competition and exercise that specifically facilitates efficacious whole body mitochondrial transformation and thermogenesis that is an ally in metabolic healing. LCHF/keto plus slow-moving, high intensity weight-bearing strength training is amazingly effective and complimentary to metabolic boosting - as explored in science-based (and LCHF oriented) approaches to exercise health in Body by Science by Doug McGuff MD and Slow Burn Fitness Revolution by Fred Hahn, Mary Dan Eades MD and Michael Eades MD. It’s also been pointed out by several of these authors in blog articles or talks that 99% of body recomposition is dietary - and - the 1% potential boosting via slow, intense weight training brings both short term and long term benefits that are deeply supportive of recomposition as well as for rejuvenation.

There is also a lot of miseducation on “cardio” vs. “non-cardio” activities. One can receive intense systemic flushing and heartrate changes through slow lifting of reasonable dumbbells while also building strength/mass that protects the joints as we age. In a society where replacement of joints is considered “normal” for those with health coverage, the idea of naturally lean and strong bodies as joint-protection is downplayed unfortunately.

Evidently, partial body exercise (such as calf muscle development and respiratory strength through jogging, or respiratory exercise via treadmills) isn’t as great for aging and longevity as regular (every 5-7 days) weight-bearing exercises that engage a lot of different muscles. Makes sense, when you consider how aboriginal and indigenous peoples in traditional lifestyles have strong midlifers and elders that carry young children or water!

HOWEVER - for folks with too much stress/unmanaged stress (high cortisol levels) or who are morbidly obese - just following LCHF/keto will and does take care of 99% of body recomposition over the years. There is much value in avoiding injury or excess stress by trying to exercise even correctly when one is too stressed or too obese.

And when the situation is right - weightbearing movement can exponentially enhance body recomposition, and walks in nature with friends can definitely lift the spirits. Moving the body mindfully at any time is effective for breathing well and appreciating lthis precious & brief life.

(Dawn) #18

That’s my girl. And now that we are getting skinnier, think how HOT we are going to look in our new workout clothes!

#19

@SlowBurnMary

So many good points in your post. I actually just watched one of Doug McGuff’s presentations (it’s here if anyone’s curious) and was blown away. I’m now on a mission to get my parents to watch it and start lifting weights.

I love his reminder to us that “common” (at least now in the US) is not the same as “normal” for human beings. Staying strong and fit into 70s and 80s is normal for human physiology (and normal in hunter gatherer societies).

Lack of interest in exercise
#20

Yes indeed, it’s inspiring stuff! Common Americans with medically supported longevity are often often sickly by midlife and frail in the elder years. Whereas LCHF recomposition and appropriate strength-training can make us… supernormal in terms of resiliancy, radiance, and mental agility.

It also helps to be know atypical elders who exemplify such. Some decades back I had a 79 year old tai chi teacher whose radiance and leanness were a combo of more traditional asian cuisine along with some of the strength-enhancing advanced practices. I’ve also had the privilege of learning from some senior traditional martial arts teachers in their 60s who are more vital and fit than many a 30 year old who may walk in the doors of their schools looking to be trained, etc.

Ernestine Shepherd, the 84 year old world-class female bodybuilder, didn’t start lifting weights till she was 57. And it’s amazing that muscles can be preserved and built that allow for midlife and elderly people to have muscle mass equivalent to people decades younger than them.

Biology and physiology are so magnificent!

#21

@carl and @richard
I have a podcast request/issue about this whole exercise question. Why do folks like Jason Fung, who’s all about the hormones, who explains weight and hunger and fat storage and carbohydrates from the perspective of insulin and leptin, etc, suddenly revert to talking calories when he’s discussing exercise?

I think everyone agrees that for getting to and maintaining a healthy weight, food quality/quantity (including fasting) is top priority, and I would put sleep/stress management second if I had rank the next variable, but the reason exercise is up there toward the top of the list is because of how it affects our hormones, not because of how many calories it burns.

(ianrobo) #22

a very interesting discussion.

OK I gave up on worrying about exercise for weight loss when I started Keto, however it is vital to understand exercise is good for the body and mind. You may be able to lose weight etc by nothing nothing but eat Keto but you body need exercise.

I also believe the primal theories and we are evolved to be animals that can go a long time on endurance, check out how little sleep we do compared to dogs etc. Part of this means the body needs exercise to function correctly and help speed up the metabolism etc.

for me it comes first, then food then stress because I have got my weight to a level I am happy with.

BTW when talking about stress I now have a HRV watch and fascinating to see just how much stress one of my long rides gives me !

(carl) #23

Great question, but, with respect, I think your assumption that Dr. Fung talks only about exercise in terms of calories is incorrect. What he says is exercise does nothing to lower insulin. It does lots of great things. Exercise increases your mitochondria, builds muscle, burns off muscle glycogen, is good for your heart and other internal organs. These are all great benefits. However, if you’re trying to lower insulin, exercise isn’t going to help.

Here’s a clip from Obesity Code Podcast episode 3, “Non Scale Victories” where Jason addresses exercise.

#24

Oh! thank you so much for responding, Carl!

I shouldn’t have implied that he only talks about exercise re: calories. Maybe more accurate is to say that he very often explains that exercise is ineffective because you don’t actually burn very many calories (or that you eat too much after exercise to make up for the calories burned - which is true for sugar burners but rarely for fat-burners).

Exercise usually directly lowers blood glucose, and using up those muscle glycogen stores helps with the overall metabolic condition of the body. Are you (or he) saying that somehow that process doesn’t positively affect insulin levels or insulin sensitivity? Genuine question but that would be the first time I’m hearing that. It doesn’t make much sense to me and runs counter to almost everything I’ve read.

I completely understand that since exercise is part of the #%^#%^ “eat less, move more” rhetoric, he might feel the need to argue against its usefulness; I just don’t understand why he (and others who know better) so often revert to CICO when discussing physical activity.

#25

Exercise, especially low to medium intensity cardio, isn’t effective for weight loss. Look at all the overweight people on the treadmill and elliptical doing hours of cardio without notable change.

Exercise in the form of resistance training has always been an effective tool for body recompostion. Especially when combined with appropriate nutrition, weight may increase, decrease, or stay the same. Just like the OP’s photo.

Just because exercise doesn’t play a big role in losing weight, doesn’t mean it’s not beneficial. According to the National Weight Control Registry, exercise is a key component to successfully keeping the weight off. And without maintainance, all effort is futile.

(Karen Parrott) #26

I had read in Refuse to Regain about many successful weight maintainers needing around 60 minutes of exercise a day for maintenance. I do 60+ minutes of what many would call Zone 2 exercise. No cardio bunny, but yes active time walking.

I also do 1-2 gym days for weights and floor mobility exercises. 70+ pounds off 5.75 years now. Previously 40 years obese.

About 85% of my success is my food template, the other 10% is exercise. 5% is everything else.

(carl) #27

Listen to the clip I linked to to hear him say it in his own words. “Exercise does nothing to lower insulin.” That’s What he said.

#28

I agree that the injury risk is overrated.

Most injuries a new runner can get will just impair his training, with little everyday consequences: iliotibial band syndrom (disappears immediately when stopping), tibial periostitis and Achilles tendinopathy (after a few days, you’ll hardly notice walking or at rest), plantar fascitis (the only difficult one, in particular for people used to heels). Also, the onset is progressive, you know beforehand that you are getting injured. Invalidating injuries (stress fracture, hip issues, meniscus tear, etc.) are for serious athletes (high load, high intensity or technical trail running).

And I don’t think people get a lot of injuries from Nordic walking, bodyweight strength training or spinning :slight_smile:

#29

I know; that’s what I’m questioning. I love Dr Fung, but that sounds just … not true.

Also that statement - isn’t it an outlier? most of his comments about exercise seem to be focused on calories.

I appreciate your time answering, and I don’t mean to cause a big fuss about it! I’ve just noticed the CICO argument relative to exercise recently and I don’t understand it.

#30

Yes, this is different for all of us! Even if I think we all agree that food is the most important variable, I think we all have different levers when it comes to behavior change.

For me, even though I think food comes first, activity/exercise is usually the variable I look to when I want to see a shift. When I’m moving enough (for me, and in the ways that work best for me), everything else falls into place more easily - I sleep better, make better decisions about food, feel better about myself, etc.

(ianrobo) #31

yep in these discussions we often forget the mental aspect. Once weight comes off you become more confident, more optimistic etc.

The real problem is with weight regain is when it happens on ‘normal’ diets you then feel a failure and slip back into the old habits.and then it becomes the old cycle.

I know for many exercise is daunting in many ways but it is what we were designed for and without it IMHO the other bits can not work.

(VLC.MD) #32

The vast majority of people won’t meet weight loss goals with exercise.
Overall, it is a small piece of the weight loss puzzle.

This is a good template for weight loss. 85% is what you eat.

Of course, probably more importantly, exercise is a miracle for your health. For longevity and feeling well, exercise VERY likely beats Keto. AINEC. Exercise prevents heart disease, low mood and Alzheimer’s <insert 100 diagoses here>.

KISS:
Exercise to live long.
Keto to lose weight.

(ianrobo) #33

that is indeed perfect !