"Exercise is not an effective tool for weightloss" is nonsense

#21

@carl and @richard
I have a podcast request/issue about this whole exercise question. Why do folks like Jason Fung, who’s all about the hormones, who explains weight and hunger and fat storage and carbohydrates from the perspective of insulin and leptin, etc, suddenly revert to talking calories when he’s discussing exercise?

I think everyone agrees that for getting to and maintaining a healthy weight, food quality/quantity (including fasting) is top priority, and I would put sleep/stress management second if I had rank the next variable, but the reason exercise is up there toward the top of the list is because of how it affects our hormones, not because of how many calories it burns.

(ianrobo) #22

a very interesting discussion.

OK I gave up on worrying about exercise for weight loss when I started Keto, however it is vital to understand exercise is good for the body and mind. You may be able to lose weight etc by nothing nothing but eat Keto but you body need exercise.

I also believe the primal theories and we are evolved to be animals that can go a long time on endurance, check out how little sleep we do compared to dogs etc. Part of this means the body needs exercise to function correctly and help speed up the metabolism etc.

for me it comes first, then food then stress because I have got my weight to a level I am happy with.

BTW when talking about stress I now have a HRV watch and fascinating to see just how much stress one of my long rides gives me !

(carl) #23

Great question, but, with respect, I think your assumption that Dr. Fung talks only about exercise in terms of calories is incorrect. What he says is exercise does nothing to lower insulin. It does lots of great things. Exercise increases your mitochondria, builds muscle, burns off muscle glycogen, is good for your heart and other internal organs. These are all great benefits. However, if you’re trying to lower insulin, exercise isn’t going to help.

Here’s a clip from Obesity Code Podcast episode 3, “Non Scale Victories” where Jason addresses exercise.

#24

Oh! thank you so much for responding, Carl!

I shouldn’t have implied that he only talks about exercise re: calories. Maybe more accurate is to say that he very often explains that exercise is ineffective because you don’t actually burn very many calories (or that you eat too much after exercise to make up for the calories burned - which is true for sugar burners but rarely for fat-burners).

Exercise usually directly lowers blood glucose, and using up those muscle glycogen stores helps with the overall metabolic condition of the body. Are you (or he) saying that somehow that process doesn’t positively affect insulin levels or insulin sensitivity? Genuine question but that would be the first time I’m hearing that. It doesn’t make much sense to me and runs counter to almost everything I’ve read.

I completely understand that since exercise is part of the #%^#%^ “eat less, move more” rhetoric, he might feel the need to argue against its usefulness; I just don’t understand why he (and others who know better) so often revert to CICO when discussing physical activity.

#25

Exercise, especially low to medium intensity cardio, isn’t effective for weight loss. Look at all the overweight people on the treadmill and elliptical doing hours of cardio without notable change.

Exercise in the form of resistance training has always been an effective tool for body recompostion. Especially when combined with appropriate nutrition, weight may increase, decrease, or stay the same. Just like the OP’s photo.

Just because exercise doesn’t play a big role in losing weight, doesn’t mean it’s not beneficial. According to the National Weight Control Registry, exercise is a key component to successfully keeping the weight off. And without maintainance, all effort is futile.

(Karen Parrott) #26

I had read in Refuse to Regain about many successful weight maintainers needing around 60 minutes of exercise a day for maintenance. I do 60+ minutes of what many would call Zone 2 exercise. No cardio bunny, but yes active time walking.

I also do 1-2 gym days for weights and floor mobility exercises. 70+ pounds off 5.75 years now. Previously 40 years obese.

About 85% of my success is my food template, the other 10% is exercise. 5% is everything else.

(carl) #27

Listen to the clip I linked to to hear him say it in his own words. “Exercise does nothing to lower insulin.” That’s What he said.

#28

I agree that the injury risk is overrated.

Most injuries a new runner can get will just impair his training, with little everyday consequences: iliotibial band syndrom (disappears immediately when stopping), tibial periostitis and Achilles tendinopathy (after a few days, you’ll hardly notice walking or at rest), plantar fascitis (the only difficult one, in particular for people used to heels). Also, the onset is progressive, you know beforehand that you are getting injured. Invalidating injuries (stress fracture, hip issues, meniscus tear, etc.) are for serious athletes (high load, high intensity or technical trail running).

And I don’t think people get a lot of injuries from Nordic walking, bodyweight strength training or spinning :slight_smile:

#29

I know; that’s what I’m questioning. I love Dr Fung, but that sounds just … not true.

Also that statement - isn’t it an outlier? most of his comments about exercise seem to be focused on calories.

I appreciate your time answering, and I don’t mean to cause a big fuss about it! I’ve just noticed the CICO argument relative to exercise recently and I don’t understand it.

#30

Yes, this is different for all of us! Even if I think we all agree that food is the most important variable, I think we all have different levers when it comes to behavior change.

For me, even though I think food comes first, activity/exercise is usually the variable I look to when I want to see a shift. When I’m moving enough (for me, and in the ways that work best for me), everything else falls into place more easily - I sleep better, make better decisions about food, feel better about myself, etc.

(ianrobo) #31

yep in these discussions we often forget the mental aspect. Once weight comes off you become more confident, more optimistic etc.

The real problem is with weight regain is when it happens on ‘normal’ diets you then feel a failure and slip back into the old habits.and then it becomes the old cycle.

I know for many exercise is daunting in many ways but it is what we were designed for and without it IMHO the other bits can not work.

(VLC.MD) #32

The vast majority of people won’t meet weight loss goals with exercise.
Overall, it is a small piece of the weight loss puzzle.

This is a good template for weight loss. 85% is what you eat.

Of course, probably more importantly, exercise is a miracle for your health. For longevity and feeling well, exercise VERY likely beats Keto. AINEC. Exercise prevents heart disease, low mood and Alzheimer’s <insert 100 diagoses here>.

KISS:
Exercise to live long.
Keto to lose weight.

(ianrobo) #33

that is indeed perfect !

#34

Yes, that’s pretty much what the consensus is above. No one’s advocating meeting weight loss goals with exercise; more that when done well it’s a really helpful tool for health and body recomposition, which is what most people are actually looking for when they want to lose weight.

(Karen Parrott) #35

Yesssss! This! I credit my mobility, binge urge hunger reduction, better sleep- all to my 60+ minutes of exercise. The rest- Keto/ IF are just what they are. Keto/LCHF/IF are also good for weight maintenance.

(Adam Kirby) #36

A lot of knowledgeable low carb people seem to disagree with Dr. Fung that exercise can in fact improve insulin sensitivity. Unfortunately one of the sides here is wrong.

#37

@akirby83 I think that part of what makes him so appealing is his frank talk about all the nonsense that people have been taught, so even though I think he’s wrong on that one if you take him literally, his larger message about working out essentially amounts to “you can’t exercise your way out of carb-heavy SAD eating” which is undoubtedly true, especially when “exercise” can mean so many different things.

I just get frustrated when I see movement and activity overly simplified as something that doesn’t directly result in a scale change. I feel like that’s really missing the point if you’re honestly looking to long-term health and vitality and good (and good-looking!) body composition.

Not being able to exercise your way out of a poor diet doesn’t mean that movement isn’t a crucial component of excellent health.

(VLC.MD) #38

Is there a source for this ?
I’m sure Dr. Fung would agree that exercise improves insulin sensitivity.

And that isn’t even the question. The question is … How effective is exercise for weight loss ?

My opinion is that it isn’t very effective for weight loss. At least for myself.

Why ?
It takes me 30min to burn 300 calories biking. I can eat 300 calories of sugar in 10 seconds.
Exercise makes me hungry.
I seem not to have the time / dont take the time.
I tend not to stick with exercise.
I takes me 6 hours of intense exercise to burn 1 lb of fat.

One person told me, “What do you mean exercise doesnt help weight loss ?” “What if I become a long distance runner, you think I wont lose weight?” I said, no, you’ll lose alot of weight. Update: that was 7 years ago, and she’s not a long distance runner.

#39

Yes, there’s a source for this - see above.

Most of this is addressed in the various posts above in case you’re interested (short version is: it’s not about the calories!), but also most standard cardio is to exercise what the standard high-carb advice is to a good diet i.e. woefully ineffective (also addressed above, if you’re interested).

(Bacon for the Win) #40

I trained for and ran a handful of marathons. With each one I was 5lbs heavier and 10 minutes slower. Ate the standard runner’s fare…bagels and pasta. I am now 20 lbs less than I was for any marathon and all I do now is walk.