Eating Fat to Satiety


(eat more) #21

you can! you just continue not eating…until you do :blush:

i tried to do a planned fast…it wasn’t fun…any of the fasts i’ve done were “spontaneous”
today i accidentally fasted for 20 :joy:


(I want abs... olutely all the bacon) #22

Once you’re ready experiment! My zero carb advenature in January resulted in 17 pounds lost with >100g protein days and tons of fat. 17 pounds was huge for me, I have seen slow weightloss since starting keto last year in July.

I finished a 4-day water/coffee fast last week with 11 pounds lost and a huge reduction in my morning BG, preceded and followed by 4-days of feasting of 2,700-3,100 kcal /day and protein from 101 to 178 grams gaining only 2 pounds the morning after my first meal. I’m now 26-hours into another EF, which will run 3-5 days depending on how I feel. Interesting for me on this latest fast I experienced my lowest BG to date at 62, stayed consistently in the 60s for the fast days after (morning and evening), and then only raised to the low 70s for the first 3 days and 83 on the last feeding day. My normal morning BG has been in the 90s for the last few months and 80s before eating on the afternoon.


(What The Fast?!) #23

@richard I’ve been looking forward to hearing about the results of that experiment!! I just listened to the podcast where you announced that you’d be doing that. Very interesting!! How do you keep your protein so low? I know you talk about meat products a lot on the show, but can’t figure how to eat them without getting tons of protein.

My lean body mass is around 50kg (by my crude estimations - 66.5kg with about 26% fat), and I find it hard to find foods that are high in fat but low enough in protein (aside from just coconut oil and butter, which I eat my fair share of).


(Richard Morris) #24

What I did was use can of tuna in olive oil as a stalking horse. A few weeks beforehand I slowly lowered my protein for the rest of the day while also eating the tuna. By the time I started the experiment I was eating what I needed to plus a can of tuna a day - and then I stopped eating the can of tuna and I was in the zone.

My main meal of the day was 100g of pulled beef or pork fried in lard, and a fennel salad. That’s about 30g of protein. Some days I’d have an egg with cream and cheese as an omelette or scrambled for lunch, other days I’d have 2 eggs and cream - no cheese.

It wasn’t easy, but I did get used to it. I finished just before the low carb Breck conference.


(Mike Price) #25

I hear ya. I am a real lightweight when it comes to the science, but to butcher a common saying: “Don’t let perfection get in the way of progress.” You are on the right path. If your protein is a tad high, but your biomarkers are ok, then keep going. “Moderate protein” is one of the most difficult parameters for me (and I bet others) to dial in. As long as you have good kidney function, there is not a lot of downside to overshooting protein. Your results will guide you if you are too high. I personally have moderately impaired kidney function from years of high blood pressure, and average about 2g per kg. My doc says I am fine, and I am down about 60lbs in the past year. Dr. Eric Westman has a keto diet guide on Amazon for about $5 that is pretty simple. watch some of his you tube videos. Once you have the fundamentals nailed, then worry about some of the finer points that we worry about. You can get 80% of the beneit from 20% of the effort and expense (another lift fro Pareto).


(8 year Ketogenic Veteran) #26

This cracks me the hell up. It only happened to me once, but in these three years ketogenic, I finally understood those odors everyone was talking about.
Last month during my 30 day steak challenge I overate protein the first week or so. I normally consume 100 grams, and I was doubling that. 200 grams some days! A particular morning at the gym it started to smell as if a tom cat had pissed on my weight machine. The ammonia smell was significant. Lol. I was so glad no one was nearby.
You better believe I moderated my protein from that day on! No burning protein for fuel for me again! YUCK


(Martin Arnold) #27

I do eat that much protein.

THere’s also no evidence to support the claim that too much protein affects ketosis (too much being no more than about 200g, which i doubt many people consume). GNG seems to be demand driven anyway.


(Martin Arnold) #28

Is there any evidence to support the notion that increased dietary fat intake benefits adaptation?


(Martin Arnold) #29

The question i’m trying to ask is that, while we all agree your meals should be satiating, how do we discern what nutrient is the key? Noone eats a meal that’s solely fat or protein or carbs, and even then each of them would eventually satiate you. Maybe not for long, and maybe after eating an amount necessarily so high you’d end up gaining weight. But we eat meals that comprise (for the most part) all 3 nutrients, so you don’t eat fat to satiety, you likely eat fat+protein to satiety.


(Barbara Greenwood) #30

I can’t tell whether you’re asking people to validate your higher protein approach, lure them to it, or whether you’re asking for practical guidance on how to make your meals satiating?

If it’s the first - don’t waste your time. If eating more protein is what satiates you and you feel well and you’re getting the results you want - why bother? If it’s working for you, who cares what anyone else thinks?

If it’s the second… yawn…

If it’s the third… I refer you to the first, because you seem to already know what works for YOU.


(Martin Arnold) #31

What on earth?

Are you always this paranoid?


(Tom Seest) #32

No idea. Nor did I care.

But, I’m bad that way.:sunglasses:


(Barbara Greenwood) #33

Not sure if that was directed at me, but if so:-

I’m just trying to understand why you’re asking the question when you have already found your own answer, which is to eat protein to satiety. There’s a whole variety of reasons why people ask questions to which they already have the answer.


(I want abs... olutely all the bacon) #34

This is your question at the top minus the title that is part of your question

This is your recent post hyjack

Why do you change the question like this? It is not the first time you’ve done this in posts, it creates a sense of insincerity undermining your credibility.


(I want abs... olutely all the bacon) #35

The 2nd part of your reply does not fit, I did not make this claim.
I question the sincerity of your initial question if you already eat protein to satiety. Why question fat consumption when you’ve found your personal satiety point?


(Warren ) #36

You Identity a basic problem with any diet. Those with long term eating issues always struggle with “stopping”. Fat protein or veggies. Overeating takes self control. Some find it easier to be eating fat. That is one part of the keto advantage.


(Martin Arnold) #37

That’s not changing the question, it’s specifying the issue at hand. We eat meals taht comprise a variety of nutrients. Given that fat is not the most satisfying of the three, how can we tell that we are sated because of a large fat intake and by increasing fat in order to reach satiety we aren’t eating too many calories.


(eat more) #38

the main thing about keto/LCHF is limiting insulin production… right?
hormones not calories. right?!
fat isn’t the most satiating for you but i have known to be ridiculously full for many hours from eating only half of an avocado.

the main thing i took from this video is that there is a “shut off” for consuming fats/protein where there isn’t one for carbs.

please take the time to actually read the comments/information given.

in the event that you are genuinely looking for answers we are trying to help but you have to be willing to at least consider things that are outside of your current scope.

if not…high protein works for you…that is your n=1…
why not leave it at that?
why do you need everyone to agree with you?
why isn’t your personal experience good enough for you?


(Martin Arnold) #39

I read everything that is given, I may not understand it but I reserve the right to question it.

Likewise I consider everything as well.

If you tell me that you are full from fat, then that is fine. I don’t doubt it, however it is my experience that I’m concerned with just as you are concerned with yours. I think that’s reasonable :slight_smile:

The real problem I have is that there are many different opinions and interpretations that I have come across as to what is the correct thing to do, amount to eat, and so forth. Each group that advocates an approach is as sincere and as certain as you are. I’m in the mddle. I don’t know who is right and who is wrong unless I try and ask questions. Unfortunately many of these groups do not like being questioned I have found. So when you ask “why not leave it at that”, it isn’t that simple because the information isn’t neutral, for instance other sources say things like eating a lot of protein affects ketosis. Or if you don’t eat x amount of fat then you’ll struggle.

When you factor in individual tolerances, such as my need for more protein, and the difficulty of managing satiety (at least IME), what should be a simple process becomes a lot more complicated.

For example, I joined a facebook group called #ketosavedme and the guy who runs it, while well meaning and sincere, will tolerate NO questions at all. It is either his way or the highway, to the point where discussion is impossible. When I try to point out that, again, other sources say something else and that I have no way to know who’s correct without asking for evidence, he loses his mind. It’s sad because I believe him to be a good guy. I think he wants to help people, but this appraoch is making my experience of keto phenomenally difficult.

So i don’t ask questions to be awkward and I am not a troll. I simply want to know that what I’m doing is healthy and is working for me. I’m sure you feel the same.


(Richard Morris) #40

There are 2 strategies for increasing fat in your diet, a long term one and a short term one.

The long term method is to add fat to tomorrows meal. So if you are still hungry after eating a meal, next time you prepare that meal increase fat in it’s preparation.

I had dinner with Dr Phinney last November where I saw him use the short term strategy, and that is having the meat in your meal separate from a fatty sauce and adding the sauce as you need. We were eating from a buffet and Dr Phinney loaded up his plate with seafood (mostly protein) and asked the server for a dish of butter which he ladled onto his fish and shrimp. He had around half a cup of butter with his meal. I had a lot less because I wasn’t as hungry. I have a lot more lean mass, but also more body fat - so perhaps my body fat was contributing more than his to our respective fueling.

We both ate to satiety, pretty close to the same meal of fish, and one of us had about 100g of butter additional.

GNG is glucose demand driven, but dietary protein still might be able to increase demand for glucose. In people who are adapted to fueling their brains on ketones, one specific amino acid (aspartate) can decouple ketone production which can increase glucose demand 4 fold.