Eating Fat to Satiety


(Tom Seest) #17

Yes. That’s why I said I wasn’t sure it would be your case.

In my case, I ate a lot of fat before I knew I was Keto Adapted. In fact, I never wanted any hunger at all. So, anytime I was hungry, I ate butter layered on cheese as a snack. It was easy to track. I did that for three months, along with butter and eggs for breakfast. I focused on getting adapted, and conquering hunger, and NOT on weight loss which is why I probably gained the 4 pounds those first three months.

But, then it melted off like butter after that.

Great way to keep your focus on what matters. Keep up the good eating and work.


(Jaidann) #18

I find I cycle! I think it works out to be about the same in the end. Just instead of logging it and fussing I let my body tell me. There are days, like yesterday, where if I had to guess, I probably ate somewhere around 3,000 calories. Today, maybe I hit 1,000. I actually didn’t eat from about 8:30 last night until 5:00 this evening because I wasn’t hungry. So I just had dinner today. Now if I could turn days like today into a real fast I’d be golden! LOL


(Richard Morris) #19

We’re all unique though, so we need to find out what works for us.

I did an experiment in January where I ate the Australian reference value for protein, which for a 52 yo man is 0.84g/kg [LBM]. For my LBM of 80.38kgs that is 67.5 g/day of protein. I didn’t gain or lose a significant amount of lean mass (according to DEXA scans).

The interesting thing is that when I was that low, if I was short one day (like one day I only ate 59g) the following day I had intense cravings for umami tasting food (like meat/mushrooms/sea weed/ vegemite). This is the first time I have ever experienced protein hunger. But if I was over about 65g then I didn’t experience that at all. So I believe for me that does appear to be my minimum daily intake.

But that doesn’t mean everyone should be at those levels. Because we have significant variance in protein requirements, and you have to drill into the data to see that.

The meta study upon which the Australian Nutrient reference values for protein were based is

That study worked out how much protein we need to eat to remain in nitrogen balance. This is what that population of data looks like;

It may not be obvious what is happening here so let me convert the horizontal scale from Nitrogen intake per kilo of lean body mass to Protein (divide by 160 and multiply by 1000).

It should be apparent that people in this population are able to remain in nitrogen balance, in that goldilocks zone, from about 0.35 to 1.0 g/kg LBM. That is a pretty large variance. Somewhere on this planet is a mutant who needs only 0.35g/kg [LBM] of protein a day, and another who needs almost 3x that.

Most people who are not over producers of insulin can eat an excess amount of protein, nothing bad will happen. You’ll just chuck excess on the metabolic bonfire, and you might have a slight odour of ammonia, rotten egg gas, or fish on your breath as you waste protein for calories and the waste products of that become volatile and out gas from the surface of your lungs.

For someone who has a problem making too much insulin … any protein will cause you to start pumping the stuff out. So it’s probably a good strategy to try to get close to the minimum you need to maintain your body.


Dietary Protein Refresher - after listening to a STEM Talk podcast episode
(I want abs... olutely all the bacon) #20

What’s keeping you from your n=1 following this way of eating for an extended period and testing to ensure you’re in ketosis? If it works for you stop trying to fit into someone else’s macros.


(eat more) #21

you can! you just continue not eating…until you do :blush:

i tried to do a planned fast…it wasn’t fun…any of the fasts i’ve done were “spontaneous”
today i accidentally fasted for 20 :joy:


(I want abs... olutely all the bacon) #22

Once you’re ready experiment! My zero carb advenature in January resulted in 17 pounds lost with >100g protein days and tons of fat. 17 pounds was huge for me, I have seen slow weightloss since starting keto last year in July.

I finished a 4-day water/coffee fast last week with 11 pounds lost and a huge reduction in my morning BG, preceded and followed by 4-days of feasting of 2,700-3,100 kcal /day and protein from 101 to 178 grams gaining only 2 pounds the morning after my first meal. I’m now 26-hours into another EF, which will run 3-5 days depending on how I feel. Interesting for me on this latest fast I experienced my lowest BG to date at 62, stayed consistently in the 60s for the fast days after (morning and evening), and then only raised to the low 70s for the first 3 days and 83 on the last feeding day. My normal morning BG has been in the 90s for the last few months and 80s before eating on the afternoon.


(What The Fast?!) #23

@richard I’ve been looking forward to hearing about the results of that experiment!! I just listened to the podcast where you announced that you’d be doing that. Very interesting!! How do you keep your protein so low? I know you talk about meat products a lot on the show, but can’t figure how to eat them without getting tons of protein.

My lean body mass is around 50kg (by my crude estimations - 66.5kg with about 26% fat), and I find it hard to find foods that are high in fat but low enough in protein (aside from just coconut oil and butter, which I eat my fair share of).


(Richard Morris) #24

What I did was use can of tuna in olive oil as a stalking horse. A few weeks beforehand I slowly lowered my protein for the rest of the day while also eating the tuna. By the time I started the experiment I was eating what I needed to plus a can of tuna a day - and then I stopped eating the can of tuna and I was in the zone.

My main meal of the day was 100g of pulled beef or pork fried in lard, and a fennel salad. That’s about 30g of protein. Some days I’d have an egg with cream and cheese as an omelette or scrambled for lunch, other days I’d have 2 eggs and cream - no cheese.

It wasn’t easy, but I did get used to it. I finished just before the low carb Breck conference.


(Mike Price) #25

I hear ya. I am a real lightweight when it comes to the science, but to butcher a common saying: “Don’t let perfection get in the way of progress.” You are on the right path. If your protein is a tad high, but your biomarkers are ok, then keep going. “Moderate protein” is one of the most difficult parameters for me (and I bet others) to dial in. As long as you have good kidney function, there is not a lot of downside to overshooting protein. Your results will guide you if you are too high. I personally have moderately impaired kidney function from years of high blood pressure, and average about 2g per kg. My doc says I am fine, and I am down about 60lbs in the past year. Dr. Eric Westman has a keto diet guide on Amazon for about $5 that is pretty simple. watch some of his you tube videos. Once you have the fundamentals nailed, then worry about some of the finer points that we worry about. You can get 80% of the beneit from 20% of the effort and expense (another lift fro Pareto).


(8 year Ketogenic Veteran) #26

This cracks me the hell up. It only happened to me once, but in these three years ketogenic, I finally understood those odors everyone was talking about.
Last month during my 30 day steak challenge I overate protein the first week or so. I normally consume 100 grams, and I was doubling that. 200 grams some days! A particular morning at the gym it started to smell as if a tom cat had pissed on my weight machine. The ammonia smell was significant. Lol. I was so glad no one was nearby.
You better believe I moderated my protein from that day on! No burning protein for fuel for me again! YUCK


(Martin Arnold) #27

I do eat that much protein.

THere’s also no evidence to support the claim that too much protein affects ketosis (too much being no more than about 200g, which i doubt many people consume). GNG seems to be demand driven anyway.


(Martin Arnold) #28

Is there any evidence to support the notion that increased dietary fat intake benefits adaptation?


(Martin Arnold) #29

The question i’m trying to ask is that, while we all agree your meals should be satiating, how do we discern what nutrient is the key? Noone eats a meal that’s solely fat or protein or carbs, and even then each of them would eventually satiate you. Maybe not for long, and maybe after eating an amount necessarily so high you’d end up gaining weight. But we eat meals that comprise (for the most part) all 3 nutrients, so you don’t eat fat to satiety, you likely eat fat+protein to satiety.


(Barbara Greenwood) #30

I can’t tell whether you’re asking people to validate your higher protein approach, lure them to it, or whether you’re asking for practical guidance on how to make your meals satiating?

If it’s the first - don’t waste your time. If eating more protein is what satiates you and you feel well and you’re getting the results you want - why bother? If it’s working for you, who cares what anyone else thinks?

If it’s the second… yawn…

If it’s the third… I refer you to the first, because you seem to already know what works for YOU.


(Martin Arnold) #31

What on earth?

Are you always this paranoid?


(Tom Seest) #32

No idea. Nor did I care.

But, I’m bad that way.:sunglasses:


(Barbara Greenwood) #33

Not sure if that was directed at me, but if so:-

I’m just trying to understand why you’re asking the question when you have already found your own answer, which is to eat protein to satiety. There’s a whole variety of reasons why people ask questions to which they already have the answer.


(I want abs... olutely all the bacon) #34

This is your question at the top minus the title that is part of your question

This is your recent post hyjack

Why do you change the question like this? It is not the first time you’ve done this in posts, it creates a sense of insincerity undermining your credibility.


(I want abs... olutely all the bacon) #35

The 2nd part of your reply does not fit, I did not make this claim.
I question the sincerity of your initial question if you already eat protein to satiety. Why question fat consumption when you’ve found your personal satiety point?


(Warren ) #36

You Identity a basic problem with any diet. Those with long term eating issues always struggle with “stopping”. Fat protein or veggies. Overeating takes self control. Some find it easier to be eating fat. That is one part of the keto advantage.