Dumping excess ketones versus "using" them?

#1

Boy am I chatty and full of questions tonight… finally Friday and I’m taking my mind off the office for a while and catching up on things I ENJOY reading - this forum!

So I know (I think) that burning fat for energy produces ketones. And when your numbers are high on the urine, breath or blood meter, it means that you are expelling lots of unused ketones. My confusion is, what am I “using” ketones for - to burn fat, right? So are they produced by burning fat or are they used to burn fat?

Crap, after typing it out, I may have answered my own question: burning fat for energy (since we’re not providing carbs) produces ketones, but our bodies sometimes burn more fat for energy than we need so we expel them? So wait… why does our body continue to burn fat if we don’t need the energy?
Sue

(karen) #2

Basically, “Ketones, also known as “ketone bodies,” are byproducts of the body breaking down fat for energy that occurs when carbohydrate intake is low.” Some of these byproducts are burned by the body and some are excreted - either a ‘spill’ or in the case of acetone, a byproduct the body can’t use.

https://www.perfectketo.com/what-are-ketones/

#3

they are not used to burn fat, they are produced by the liver in the process of burning fat in the absence of available carbohydrate

the burning of fat isn’t stop start, its a continuous activity that may be upregulated (increased) or down regulated (decreased) depending on the bodies demand. (barring a constant supply of dietary glucose)

when you don’t eat carbohydrates your liver has to “make” glucose (which is required by some cells in your brain and nervous system, red blood cells and a handful of other cells) from protein, glycerol (part of the stored fat molecule) or lactate (a product of heavy exercise). this happens in the liver and because of this process (called gluconeogenesis) it creates a situation where part of the fat molecules that are also burned in the liver become ketones.

in people who burn more fat for energy (ie low carb people) there can be a situation where “excess” ketones are produced because of low level constant fat burning. the ketones are released into the blood stream along with the fatty acids and glucose, but because the overall energy demands on the system are being satisfied by fatty acids, glucose (from gluconeogenesis and ketones )from the fat burning) the “extra” are excreted in breath and urine. as soon as the body’s demand for fuel rises (due to exercise or less dietary intake of calories) they body will upregulate the demand for ketones and less will be excreted.

this process can take weeks or even months to become efficiently coordinated.

#4

Wow, lots to try and absorb there but thanks for explaining it. So now I’m trying to figure out what the different levels of different testing actually mean at any given moment (i.e., breath, blood, urine). I know the urine strips will start to show a paler color as our bodies learn to “use” the ketones more efficiently, and from my reading it seems even our breath and blood readings will be lower once we’re fat adapted. But are all three methods showing “excess” or are at least one of those tests showing a realistic picture of what stage your body is in?

I know, I know… stop chasing ketones and stop checking, but that’s just who I am… I love the testing and science and research of anything I get involved in, and I find it motivating, whether that’s realistic or not. And it truly must be a way for me, in the future, to test what foods I should avoid, what my absolute daily carb intake should be, etc., right? I mean, these monitors must serve SOME purpose other than keeping me amused, I hope?
Sue

#5

none of those tests by themselves will give enough info to tell what state your body is in.

if you know you want a certain level of ketosis (for therapeutic or other reasons) then obviously you must test, but other than you will usually develop a sense of being in ketosis with the general obvious hallmarks (not hungry, stable blood sugar levels and concomittant stable mood and energy level, reduction of body fat as measured by tape measure or body scan)

the rub is a certain level of ketosis as measured by urine, breath or blood does not necessarily correlate with the effects you want or have.

a meter like this

will be more useful to tell what foods to avoid or what happens when you eat certain things at certain times because BG effects are generally more correlated to how you feel than the ketones you can measure.

(karen) #6

I had no idea you could measure glucose without a finger prick. I’m not even prediabetic and I can already feel my gadget-love heating up. (Kinda kidding, I see this isn’t useful for fast glucose spike testing, but still … :heart_eyes:)

#7

I’m not diabetic or pre-diabetic, but I seriously thought about buying one of those. It might be helpful to watch how fast and how drastically my blood glucose rises and clashes in relation to eating certain foods. I’m a gadget-junkie, too. :slight_smile:
Sue

(Alec) #8

Not really. Keeping you amused is it’s primary purpose. :joy::rofl:

(Consensus is Politics) #9

:rofl::rofl::joy::rofl:
You just reminded me of something. I’m pretty sure it’s an old saying, and I’m gonna paraphrase it because I can’t remember it word for word, but the gist of it this…
“There are enough people in the world now that there can be a market for anything. You could design and market ___________ , and you would could sell enough to stay in business.”

The blank was something like, ripped clothing, mustard stained ties, square golf balls, you get the idea. You can market just about anything and there will be people to buy it.

(Vivienne Clampitt) #10

I have this meter. It can measure both blood glucose in the normal way with a finger prick test, it measures glucose in the institional ( not sure if thats spelt correctly!) fluid. to do this you wear a sensor on the back of your arm and scan it whenever you wish to get an idea about where your glucose levels are.It may not agree with blood glucose, there is about a 15 minute delay between both. You can also measure ketones with the correct strips again with a finger prick.
The sensor also takes readings every few minutes that will give you a graph to see what has happened to glucose levels through out the day and night. You have to scan at least once every 8 hours otherwise you will lose data.
I find it extremely useful to see what food does to my levels - I am a T2 diabetic - which indicates which foodstuffsI need to be careful about. The downside is is that the sensors are expensive - around £50 each in the UK and only last 2 weeks. If you are a T1 diabetic you may get them on prescription.

(Vivienne Clampitt) #11

It certainly does that!