Dr. Shawn Baker's Bloodwork

(Nicole Sawchuk) #12

I was surprised to see such high fasting glucose. There are many reasons this can occur, but it should not be easily dismissed. If anything, it proves that more work and research needs to be done. It also shows that people can thrive on a variety of diets. There are people who excel in a vegan environment and those on a carnivore diet. For the rest of us, it is something in the middle that requires a lot tweaking. But I am so glad Dr Baker did the bloodwork and hope we can continue to learn more!

(Adam Kirby) #13

Yes. While Dave gives a plausible mechanistic explanation for high fasting glucose it still doesn’t answer whether or not such high fasting glucose is healthy long-term. Now granted his blood sugar is nowhere near untreated T1D or anything.

This article gives a good counter-argument to the “no problem here” people. While I don’t share her level of certainty it’s worth considering that these weird numbers could be problematic.

I guess this is where we have to separate being super fit from long-term health. And if you have intense glycogen demands from exercise, is getting it from protein via gluconeogenesis the best way to achieve this, or would Baker literally be better served by ingesting some carbs for his glycolytic activities? I don’t have any answers, only questions.

(L. Amber O'Hearn) #14

It makes sense that it’s related to his activity. I haven’t had bloodwork in awhile but 3 years into carnivory my A1C was 5.1. I don’t eat as much as he does, but I think I was eating about 2 pound a day of meat.

(Chris) #15

Nice, I will give this a read.

(Adam Kirby) #16

Yeah that makes sense, I feel like this might be the natural result of trying to fuel crazy glycolytic activities with protein.

#17

I think that taking an HbA1c as indication of anything much is questionable.

HbA1cs are a rough average of blood glucose levels over the last 2-3 months (weighted in favour of the last 2-3 weeks). So it is possible to have an HbA1c of 6.0 with wild fluctuations of blood glucose that average at 6. Or it is possible to get an HbA1c with a blood glucose that stays rock solid and steady.

In terms of diabetes and diabetic complications, there is evidence which I find very convincing, to suggest that blood glucose fluctuations are far more damaging that a steady level with minimal standard deviation.

Personally, I would rather have a higher HbA1c that is due to steady levels, than a lower HbA1c that is the result of blood glucose fluctuations.

Lots of info on this here
http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/

In light of this, and due to my extensive blood glucose monitoring since going ZC, I am going to hazard a guess that Dr Baker’s blood glucose as a carnivore is rock solid. Mine certainly has been. He won’t be carb loading, and the slow release nature of carnivory is going to make his energy levels consistent.

There may also, depending on his protein/fat ratios be a certain amount of physiological insulin resistance in the mix, but that is just speculation, because I am unsure how PIR would/will interact with his exercise levels, and he clearly has a very low fasting insulin, so PIR may not be a factor at all…

Personally, I don’t see his pre-diabetic HbA1c is likely to be an issue, in view of the other factors, including the athleticism.

(Chris) #18

Got my results back. Doc is probably not happy with my cholesterol readings and possibly creatinine/urea/nitrogen.

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(Solomom A) #19

I listen to you a lot on podcasts. You seem to be on the higher fat end of the spectrum. Quite a number of the carnivore dieters are advocates of lean meats. This is an interesting experiment to keep an eye on. High fasting glucose and high A1C should be of concern to any one.

(CharleyD) #20

@Dread1840 May want to think about K2, MK-4 as well.
https://chrismasterjohnphd.com/2016/12/09/the-ultimate-vitamin-k2-resource/

(CharleyD) #21

This is my concern as well. Taekwondo is pretty glycolytic even as easy as I try to take it coming back into it in my 40s. I’d prefer to fuel with the least amount of carbs, but I’m ok bumping it up a tad tactically.

#22

This is the part that I’m wondering about too. I understand the possible mechanisms behind glucose-sparing, and he’s obviously very insulin sensitive - but I do wonder whether having chronically elevated blood sugars wouldn’t be bad for … I don’t know, everything?

[obviously it’s not necessarily bad, since he seems to be doing just fine :slight_smile: but having all of your cells swimming in a high(-ish) sugar bath doesn’t seem like a great thing long-term]

#23

His post-prandial numbers barely fluctuate, but some of his fasting numbers are pretty high (127).

[Disclaimer: I’m only halfway through the R Wolf podcast, so I don’t have full info…]

#24

I was hoping that my fasting readings would drop on ZC.
They haven’t yet.
Hey ho.

(Bunny) #25

One thing that is interesting to note according to the Weston Price Foundation is that the highest concentrations of Vitimin K is found in the pancreas and saliva glands (besides gut flora fermentation factors K2) but when it passes over to the blood circulation it gets flushed out really fast because of glucose and other factors. The compound is all over the place in the body just seems to be absorption variable dependent!

Another interesting thing; Price being a dentist was able to reverse (in pill form over 12 months) 12 cavities of a young girl using vitamin K he extracted from animal ofal or organ meats eating chlorophyll rich grass and mixing it with cod liver oil over a 12 month period…

The other one was how he took samples of saliva from some one who did not have cavities and some one who did and mix his Activator X (vitamin K) in a bone meal solution with phosphorus and watch the sample he took from the one who did have cavities being repelled in the opposite direction of the phosphorus vitamin K bone meal solution and attracted to the one who did not have cavities!

I think it was possibly a low sugar diet vs. high sugar diet etc…?

Self Experiment:

Same thing can be done (but faster) with trisodium phosphate (Na₅P₃O₁₀ ) 2 Tsp. and 1 Tsp. of baking soda to some water and swishing it for 15 minutes. Reverses cavities, increases tooth enamel thickness and tightens up loose teeth!

I always wondered if the Vitamin K in the saliva gland secretions is interacting with the trisodium phosphate; doing this swish?

(L. Amber O'Hearn) #26

Thanks for listening! I’ve not heard of these carnivore lean eaters. Bizarre. It’s not the way we did it in the bad old days. :slight_smile:

(Kel Ta) #28

It makes me think of this article that explores the topic the higher the blood sugar the greater likelihood for cognitive decline. - but again all of this research is normed on SAD dieters so it may not be generalizable…
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2018/01/the-startling-link-between-sugar-and-alzheimers/551528/

(Blyss (Old @Charmaine)) #29

The carnivore who advocates or prefers lean cuts of meat, from what I’ve seen for several months now are in the minority. I’ve read that some don’t do rendered fats well (texture issues I think), but again, they’re in the minority.

#30

My theory is that his training style utilize mostly fast twitch muscles that can only run on glucose.As result he have large muscle mass of mostly fast twitch muscle fibers.

High fast twitch muscle mass = high glucose needs = high blood glucose?

It would be interesting to compare carnivore powerlifters/sprinters ( fast twitch ) with carnivore distance runners ( slow twitch) at same muscle mass.

I think the fast twitch athletes,especialy those with large muscles will have higher fasting blood glucose.Is there some study about this?

(Elizabeth ) #31

I don’t have the link here right now but dr. Shawn Baker discusses this at length with Rob Bell in a podcast if you can find it.

(Chris) #32

Robb Wolf Paleo Solution Podcast and Mark Bell’s Power Project.