Dr. Sarah Ballantyne doubles down against ketogenic diets

science

(Omar) #21

She is acknowledging that high insulin is known to cause health problems, then she explains that low insulin is also as bad a high insulin.

I am not sure of her trying to associate the low carb with the lack of insulin playing it’s non metabolic functions.

Is it safe to assume that low or zero carbs means that insulin will not perform it’s non metabolic functions?

Unless we have credible research that relates zero or low carbs negatively to the non metabolic functions of the insulin, I am not going to be too concerned about such hypothesis.


(Chris) #22

When available. If available. Finding these things before agriculture was hard. Not only that, but modern plants don’t even resemble what these folks ate. Fruits are larger and contain far more sugar.


(Doug) #23

:rage: They wouldn’t print my response:

Well-written article, easy to read. I do have some disagreements:

𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑛𝑜𝑤-𝑑𝑒𝑏𝑢𝑛𝑘𝑒𝑑 𝑐𝑎𝑟𝑏𝑜ℎ𝑦𝑑𝑟𝑎𝑡𝑒-𝑖𝑛𝑠𝑢𝑙𝑖𝑛 ℎ𝑦𝑝𝑜𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑠𝑖𝑠 𝑜𝑓 𝑜𝑏𝑒𝑠𝑖𝑡𝑦

— At the very least, this is far from settled. While some doctors/scientists/researchers do hold this opinion, I’ve never seen a good study that argues against that hypothesis. What I’ve seen are studies that are too short in length for the study subjects to become well adapted to burning their own fat, and to make substantial progress in overcoming insulin resistance, and/or with confounding factors such as the test diet not being low enough in carbohydrates.

𝑤ℎ𝑖𝑙𝑒 𝑖𝑛𝑠𝑢𝑙𝑖𝑛 𝑟𝑒𝑠𝑖𝑠𝑡𝑎𝑛𝑐𝑒 𝑖𝑠 𝑐𝑙𝑒𝑎𝑟𝑙𝑦 𝑑𝑎𝑚𝑎𝑔𝑖𝑛𝑔, 𝑛𝑜𝑡 𝑒𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑒𝑛𝑜𝑢𝑔ℎ 𝑐𝑎𝑟𝑏𝑠 𝑡𝑜 𝑠𝑢𝑝𝑝𝑜𝑟𝑡 ℎ𝑒𝑎𝑙𝑡ℎ𝑦 𝑎𝑚𝑜𝑢𝑛𝑡𝑠 𝑜𝑓 𝑖𝑛𝑠𝑢𝑙𝑖𝑛 𝑠𝑒𝑐𝑟𝑒𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛 𝑐𝑎𝑛 𝑎𝑙𝑠𝑜 𝑙𝑒𝑎𝑑 𝑡𝑜 𝑠𝑖𝑚𝑖𝑙𝑎𝑟 ℎ𝑒𝑎𝑙𝑡ℎ 𝑝𝑟𝑜𝑏𝑙𝑒𝑚𝑠 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑚𝑎𝑘𝑒 𝑙𝑜𝑛𝑔-𝑡𝑒𝑟𝑚 𝑤𝑒𝑖𝑔ℎ𝑡 𝑙𝑜𝑠𝑠 𝑚𝑎𝑖𝑛𝑡𝑒𝑛𝑎𝑛𝑐𝑒 𝑡𝑜𝑢𝑔ℎ𝑒𝑟.

Outside of Type 1 Diabetes, that insulin secretion could be “too low” seems very foreign to me. For those of us in the insulin-resistant camp, many with obesity/metabolic syndrome/pre-diabetes/diabetes, our insulin levels usually remain higher than is desirable when eating extremely low carbohydrate diets, and even when fasting.
That hormonal effects are often complex, and that hormonal balance is vastly important is a given. For a huge portion of the population – those of us with insulin resistance – I’d say let’s work on the too-high insulin levels first, and later worry about not secreting enough, if that ever actually manifests.


(Omar) #24

Exactly


(Mark) #25

Paleo was such a short blip on the radar screen of human evolution. A couple a Dr. Ron Rosedale’s YouTube videos show evolution in reverse, and if you blink your eyes you will totally miss the “Paleo” time period. We were not designed to eat Paleo. Too funny!!! Paleo is not all bad, by any means, but we shouldn’t consider it the perfect diet. :slight_smile:


#26

Great example of how being open to experimentation pays dividends. n=1 as always. I really cannot get on board with the militants in any field - they annoy the pants off me. The primary goal should always be your health and happiness and how you achieve that is never going to be the same for everyone. Good for you to have gone against the grain to find what works for you. Kudos.


(Amanda ) #27

This is extremely interesting to hear. I’ve been Keto for 8 weeks. I’m 5’2’ and 111 pounds, having gained a bit on keto. I am not satiated with 2 eggs and 3 slices of bacon, or 2 eggs and an avocado like I see other people posting. I don’t have any plan to go back to a SAD, but, I’m wondering how long I continue on this road before tweaking the 20 carbs thing to work a little better for me and my body type. I’m not diabetic (that I know of!).


#28

Amanda, I tried adding one bite (not even kidding here) of sweet potato or banana with almond butter on it (don’t barf til you try it :slight_smile: after a keto meal and I swear it hits the spot. I do that after every meal and it keeps me from surfing the butter and more and more and more fats! I swear I cut 500 calories off my daily diet, minimum, by adding thatcarb shot in at the end. And my blood ketones are still registering. I don’t do this in lieu of other carbs, but you may have to I don’t know.
I don’t crave carbs at all and never wanted to add them back in, but when I did it took care of the constant hunger problem. Now I eat regular keto meals without all the added fat and that carb shot fixes everything.


#29

I’m male, so my experience may differ from yours. My two big things were that my apatite has been steadily decreasing as my keto-age increases, but fat alone won’t get the job done for me; I need 125-150g protein a day or I’m hungry almost without regard to how much fat I eat.


(Ken) #30

That’s easily disputable. It’s arguable that the period comprised nearly all of the evolution of Genus Homo, starting with Habilus. Scavenging probably went back even farther. Homo Erectus has long been called the ultimate hunter, and our current species refined our hunting skills and practices even more. Sure, seasonal carbs like fruits were eaten, but the mainstay was hunting. So, from around two millions years ago or so, up until around 12,000 years ago we ate Paleo.

Most people have little conception of the plethora of herding animals found word wide right up until the Younger Dryas. It was a realtively easy resource to utilize, and it was.


(back and doublin' down) #31

Love all the new knowledge available these days. This post sent me out to look up and read. Thanks!


(Sarah Slancauskas) #32

I’m also coming to this conclusion. Paleo seems to give the benefits of low carb, omits the harmful grains, but includes fruit and other vege carbs which I find really benefits my energy and mood. I definitely notice a change in mood when very low carb. I’m looking into paleo more but including in that some very low carb days to get the benefits of ketosis (which I seem to get into quite quickly). It’s interesting!


#33

paleoinians are ketonians they just believe in an expanded carb base of natural bright colored foods.


(Mark) #34

Not disputable at all. Watch the video’s. :wink:


(Ken) #35

I recommend you read Cordain’s “Cereal Grains: Humanity’s Double-Edged Sword”.

It’s pretty much the foundation of the Paleo concept, although it’s not the earliest, as the concept has been around since the 1960’s.


(Mark Rhodes) #36

Since I started keto almost 2 years ago, this is something I have thought a great deal about. We have dual fuel systems and if you are not trying to address certain health issues other than just general wellness, then it makes sense to eat somewhat seasonally to the point of eating high carb low fat in Autumn in order to add a few pounds for the upcoming winter which traditionally is a time of shortage. The Winter festivals (Saturnalia, Christmas) all had large feasts using the last of the Autumn’s foods before they spoiled.


(Mark) #37

(Brian) #38

I just watched Dr Rosedale’s video. Interesting.

It does give one cause to think about what the intake looks like. It makes me wonder how a short protein restriction, a water fast, a variation of protein intake from day to day, or even a periodic low protein vegan diet (I am an omnivore) of a few days might fit in with the quest for long life and good health.

Keto does seem to be a way of lowering mTOR already, and so does fasting.

So many interesting thoughts and lots of interconnections.


(Karen) #39

I go back and forth setting grams protein. Bikman vs Rosedale. Just reset my macros. Getting more protein is satisfying and easy, but I am old. Hmmmm

Perhaps up and down on protein, which would also cycle higher and lower calories to keep your body guessing.

K


(Ken) #40

Good video. He’s put many of the concepts known for nearly 20 years into a very understandable presentation. I may have interpreted it differently but I don’t see any major conflicts with the original Paleo concept. In fact, Paleo was based upon many of them. I do see conflicts with both ZC and perpetual Keto doctrine though. I suggest again that you read the previously posted link.