Dr. Dominic D'agostino's experience following a carnivore diet | Dominic
What were the adverse biomarkers?
Heard him on a different podcast advocating fiber intake because it supposedly lowered his (edit: postprandial) blood sugar and insulin. But this is my blood sugar on keto:
The higher morning blood sugar on Tuesday is due to exercise.
When did I eat? Even I can’t tell.
Unfortunately, I don’t remember what I ate for these three days, but I haven’t eaten much fiber for a long time, though I don’t eat carnivore.
He repeatedly said he felt good on carnivore but was concerned about his bloodwork - primarily that his LDL rose sharply and that was concerning. [If he’s a LMHR (like about 30% of us) then congrats - that’s the sign of a job well done.]
He cites a lack of fiber as a problem, but then goes on to says that folks do just fine without any dietary fiber?
I struggled to hear a useful takeaway point. 
Aw, he lost me with “synergy in optimizing”, lol.
And yeah … “I felt great but my biomarkers started to creep up.” Given the lack of real knowledge about what those biomarkers mean, if anything, and especially within the context of the diet and its known side effects, I feel this is a bit like saying, “I earned a million dollars but my banker got annoyed with me, so I guess that’s not very good.” Why not? Not very good for whom?
He’s definitely a LMHR, as he had a discussion with Dave Feldman and Nick Norwitz, and they were all talking about how high their LDL (and ApoB) went up. He also said he had added more fiber and stopped eating dairy, which supposedly dropped his LDL (I might be able to agree with fiber, or at least Dave Feldman thinks this is possible, but I’m not sure that dairy is meaningful). He also had started taking zetia.
Here’s the podcast:
Meanwhile, Nick Norwitz is there, chugging olive oil and eating a lower saturated fat diet, yet also has massively high LDL.
I think of it like this: Here’s this list of 10, 20, 30, or more benefits I’ve gotten while doing keto/carnivore. But then your doctor sees one marker, LDL, go up and knows you’re killing yourself. It just doesn’t make logical/scientific sense.
And he might be able to add some carbs in and drop LDL. I think this was the podcast where Dave Feldman said that part of the LMHR theory is that they react very quickly to introducing carbs. Both Dave (white bread) and Nick (Oreos) did N=1 studies where they dropped their LDL dramatically just by adding carbs back in. In fact, Dave stated this could be used to determine whether it’s LMHR or FH (familial hypercholesterolemia), because in FH, nothing happens with changes in carbs, whereas in LMHR, LDL plummets for higher carbs.
But maybe he could add 50-100g carbs per day, which would drop his LDL. He may even still be able to keep in ketosis, depending on what his exercise is.
I’m not sure why he started keto though. It might not be good to add carbs. I have been listening to podcasts about keto and mental health, and a woman cured her mental issues (bipolar? and more, I think) by doing keto. But if she has a day or two of carbs, many of her issues start coming back. She can’t really take herself off keto.
Dr. Dom D’Agostino has been one of the world’s leading researchers and proponents of the ketogenic diet for more than 15 years. His company is called KetoNutrition and it has lots of good information. About 10 years ago, the US Navy hired Dom to work with their Navy Seals. His concerns about his blood markers started when he went to a carnivore, not keto. Carnivore did not work for him.
Dom’s LDL and Trigs more than double while on carnivore. He has tested this a few times and each time these markers seem to increase. While he believes that you can survive without fruits and vegtables, this dietary pattern may not be optimal for health.
… If you can improve a marker by eating more Oreos … Is that really a marker you want to improve? 
For his health maybe but what works for one or doesn’t work for one cannot be made a blanket statement for all.
I personally don’t agree with his assessment on carnivore especially as it applies to myself and many other carnivores I know. Maybe he just hasn’t completely let go of all the traditional nutritional brainwashing of the past.
When I learned the truth about fiber in my diet it really lit the lightbulb in my head. It made me start questioning the conventional nutritional standards that have been preached to us all of these years. Might as well eat a tree.
To be honest, I don’t care what he’s done. For one, how can he be a LMHR and NOT get higher LDL when keto, yet miraculously get much worse numbers while being carnivore. Are you telling me that dropping 20g of carbs causes your LDL to explode? Bull.
He was saying that he eats fruit and vegetables, and to me, that’s not “keto”. I very rarely have fruit. Pretty much never. (Mainly because I overeat it.) If he is a LMHR, then adding in ANY carbs will dramatically lower his LDL. (I also have no issues with people eating fruit if they want, including him. But just realize what’s happening if you do eat fruit.)
So, he’s a researcher who hasn’t researched what happens to LMHRs. And he’s looking at METRICS – not health, not how he felt, not anything but METRICS – to say that carnivore is bad.
It’s the infamous “I’ve lost 50, 70,100 pounds; dropped my blood pressure; reversed some or all of my allergies, depression, mood swings, bipolar, anxiety, anorexia (yes, anorexia), mood swings, decreased my HbA1c, HS-CRP, ferritin, trigs, etc., increased my HDL, stopped getting skin tags, have better skin, feel fantastic, I could list 10, 20, 30+ more benefits”, but my LDL and ApoB went up, so I’m going to DIE!
Does that make sense to you? Because it never has to me.
I’m at my lowest weight now that I’ve been in decades, and yet my doctor wants me on a statin because I have ONE measurement of LDL over 100. Why? (And I have a CAC scan score of zero, though that was a few years ago, after 5.5 years of keto.) And if the LMHR theory is correct, the more weight I lose, the more my LDL will go up.
I’ve posted this link before and, given the perennial nature of the fiber topic, I’ll likely post it again…
Most people nomally would not readily except any N=1 study but becasue it confirms biases it is accepted as the gospel. Please keep in mind that Dave is not a medical doctor and Nick has been a doctor for about 2 minutes.
Agreed. He only talks about himself. he even says, "this dietary pattern may not be optimal for health.’ Not a blanket statement.
Its his own assessment as he clearly stated his number went up by 2x+ in a short period or time.
The truth according to who? Somebody who just confirms your bias?
Why? Because he questions your own bias. You should read his papers you may learn something.
I do not believe he said he was a LMHR. He is a research scientist in keto and has been keto for most than 15 years . He has contstanly tested himself 100s of times. Again, D’agostino discusses HIS experience on carnivore but because it does not fit, you think its bull. Nonsense.
In fairness to @ffskier, the thread headline refers to Dr. D’s own experience on carnivore.
He leaves the door open to others’ experiences being different. (FWIW, he didn’t assert being an LMHR; I’d offered that guess given his reported LDL spike).
What got some of us inclined to reply to this thread is that he described certain issues as concerns which many of us have comfortably moved beyond… in particular, the kind of concerns we often hear from newbies, as opposed to a years-long carb-restricter with a Dr. credit to his name.
Since his experience certainly doesn’t square with what many others here have experienced on our own, here’s my takeaway: It takes a lot of “n” to make for a meaningful “N.”
That remains to be seen. However, he has been keto for 15+ years and has thrived on keto. I posted originally because I found it interesting that he continually thrives on keto, has done it for a long time, has produced cited studies on the benefits of keto for the scientific community, and has stable blood markers while on keto, yet his blood markers changed significantly when trying carnivore. He is careful to say this has been his experience, and he states he knows of others who thrived on carnivore.
I understand. New to carnivore, but Dr. Dom d’Agostino is not a keto newbie. He has been in the keto space for 15+ years. His research is primarily based on keto and improving metabolic health. I was in no way attacking the carnivore tribe; I just thought, Here was a leading expert in keto who tried carnivore and had a different experience. He stopped because his blood markers were double. For him, this was a concern; it may not be for others on carnivore.
Yeah, they can be a blood-thirsty bunch.And I apologize if I got impatient. I am starting to mull over the idea that the entire realm of cholesterol science is a bunch of nonsense. They look at it from one standpoint and when that doesn’t pan out they turn it on its side, then try to poke it from behind, desperately seeking to find Something to justify all the profit-making tests, and the drugs available to manipulate it. When I hear about someone freaking out over cholesterol, it feels like they’ve swallowed what I believe is the kool aid that it matters.