Dr. Bikman's Lecture on Insulin vs Glucagon

science
fasting
(Doug) #61

Frank, I certainly agree that salt and other minerals can help when fasting. “Satiety” - the absence of hunger and cravings, I’d say.

#62

Jimmy is supposed to be at Ketofest this year. Will be interesting to see if he talks about his experiment and if he is willing to discuss the flaws.

(Banting & Yudkin & Atkins & Eadeses & Cordain & Taubes & Volek & Naiman & Bikman ) #63

Also confounded with fat.

A better experiment would be something like shrimp on a fast. Pretty pure protein.

(Karen) #64

Good point. Sometimes I see shrimp macros showing shrimp with a carb. Anyone know why?

K

#65

He didn’t sound very open minded to begin with so conducting a potentially flawed experiment and getting “bad” results seemed like an outcome he welcomed. Anyone listen to yesterday’s episode of Ketohacking? Jimmy definitely has a tone of “debunking” in my opinion. Jimmy’s results might be relevant to some but it appears his metabolism is very unique to Jimmy.

#66

I sometimes eat a can of smoked oysters which have around 8g of carbs. A lot of shellfish are this way. Overall I don’t sweat it too much. I think it’s because you are consuming the entire organism including the glycogen stored in various parts? I’d like to know also.

(Adam Kirby) #67

Doesn’t sound like his insulin sensitive co-host had a good time with this experiment either.

#68

Agreed, they seemed to get the result they wanted from this odd “experiment”. We’ll see what more they have to say next week.

(Karen) #69

UPDATE: the weight was up, but not voiding!

(Cat Gilliland) #70

Do what works for you! The best way of eating is the one you can stick to!
We did Atkins about 12 years ago, and high protein low carb was pretty much our plan. I had to keep strictly to <20g net carbs per day to lose any weight, and still only lost about a pound a week. I had no idea at the time that protein had any insulin response, or that there was “good fat”. Atkins worked well enough for weight loss, but of course we went back to our SAD way of eating and gained back twice as much as we lost over the next several years.
I am finding this time with keto that I can still achieve average one pound per week weight loss and be a little less strict on carbs when I’m eating a more moderate amount of protein and higher fat.

(Jane Srygley) #71

Protein + Fat + Carnitine = Ketosis and meat is the perfect food for that.

I think that makes this thread worth a bump! I was going to post this video but found it in a 2yo thread. Any more new thoughts on this oldish topic?

(Bob M) #72

Only that vegans love to point out that some proteins cause as much insulin response as some carbs, which to them means meat = insulin resistance. Stupid, based on the video, but sounds plausible if you don’t know anything.

(Doug) #73

Agreed - this was the most eye-opening video ever, for me. With respect to the body’s response to protein, eating ketogenically makes not just a big difference, a huge difference, but an astounding difference. While a given individual here and there may find that they “can eat too much protein,” I think the lesson is that on keto protein is essentially not to be feared, at all.

(Bob M) #74

I bought a year’s supply of a FreeStyle Libre continuous glucose monitor (CGM) to attempt to prove Ted Naiman wrong, in that I thought high protein = candy bar in terms of blood sugar. That’s what everyone thought.

The problem was that I couldn’t get my blood sugar to move, no matter how much protein I ate (and the meals were basically all meat). This was way before I found the Ben Bikman lecture.

I think some people, particularly those with a messed up glucagon response, might be affected by protein. But those people usually get LOW blood sugar, not high. (Low because glucagon does not come up properly, and one effect of glucagon is to raise blood sugar.)

If you’re “normal”, you shouldn’t get any blood sugar response with protein.

For me, my morning blood sugar has been about the same (somewhere around 100) in the past 4.5 years since I’ve been taking it. During that time, I’ve eaten very high fat, lower protein; very high protein, lower fat; high saturated fat; you name it. If there IS an effect of protein on blood sugar, in my case, I have not been able to determine what it is after several thousand blood sugar (and ketone) samples.