Does taking fat shut down autophagy?

fat
(The Lowkster) #1

When I take fat during a fasting session to stave off the hunger, does it shut down autophagy ?

(Chris) #2

It’s impossible to give you a 100% reliable answer for a human since this is so invasive to study, however, small amounts of fat (less than 50cal) should still keep you in autophagy, but again, it’s not certain. Protein and carbs will certainly halt the process.

(Richard Morris) #3

We don’t really know a lot about the subject. The fundamental study into autophagy only just won a Nobel prize.

What we do know is that when glucagon goes up so does autophagy, which is why it has bee called “glucagon mediated autophagy”. Protein and carbohydrates raise insulin which inhibits glucagon and isolated fat doesn’t.

#4

Thomas Seyfried who is considered the expert on autophagy and cancer recommends distilled water only and a 7 day fast every so often (I forget exactly). That is too much for me. I could not make it without coffee and HWC

(Chris) #5

Once a year for cancer prevention is his recommendation.

(KCKO, KCFO) #6

I found this helpful to understand what autophagy is and how it works.
https://idmprogram.com/fasting-and-autophagy-fasting-25/

Seems like anything that has nutrients will impact autophagy. Since a tiny bit of fat goes further to suppress hunger, having it might slow you down, but not bring it to a total halt. Now that I need fat to supplement my fasts, I do have tiny bits of fats throughout an extended fast, but I can tell autophagy is at work during my longer fasts, skin, nails, etc. reflect this.

If you need a tiny bit of fats, go for it, just keep it a small amount.

#7

Autophagy isn’t easy to measure…but you get to autophagy from fasting, if you EAT your not fasting soooooooo… I think the better thing to target is why are you hungry to the point of eating, which is in fact breaking your fast? How long have you been keto and what are you eating normally? Your answer is in that. Maybe look into the fast “mimicking” which supposedly does the same thing, I don’t know anything about those though.

#8

Hi collaroygal,

Can you say more about this?

I can tell autophagy is at work during my longer fasts, skin, nails, etc. reflect this.

What specifically do you notice? Are you saying that you notice over the period of a few days that, yup, autophagy at work, or that it must be happening because over many months of weight loss that included fasting that you don’t have excess skin?

(KCKO, KCFO) #9

I don’t have nearly as much excess skin as I thought I would. I do have some but it is much better than I expected, based on how my skin did at other times when I was younger and lost 30+ lbs. Also my nails are in good shape, my hair loss happened over a short period and it has grown back. All that seems to indicate to me, it is working. I don’t appear to be protein deficient, so my body must have been rebuilding it when my fasting was over 48 hrs. at a time.

(Lonnie Hedley) #10

What do you mean when you “need” fat to supplement. I’d say I’m pretty lean (6ft @ 143.5lbs), and notice EF can be more of a struggle than when I had a couple extra lbs. I like the idea of a fast for health purposes as weight loss is no longer a goal, but wondered if I’d get the benefits if I incorporated some fat (hwc in my coffee for example). How much do you typically have each day during an EF?

(KCKO, KCFO) #11

I use Richard’s calculator, here is a thread with the link in it. Turns out some people have a real issue with fasting due to the limits of how much fat they have stored and how much your body can draw down for energy.

#12

Any new science on this?

(Chris) #13

Not as of yet, no. The problem is we can only study it in animals without getting too invasive for ethics boards to allow human study. I believe the subjects would probably have to be cut open a significant amount, who knows if it’s even possible to survive it at this point, lol.

(Ethan) #14

I don’t see where hair growing back or nails growing being in good shape indicate autophagy. They more likely indicate a reduction of inflammation.

(Doug) #15

Not really, but I’ve never seen anything to indicate that fat is really going to shut autophagy down - in small amounts. A little fat, like butter in black coffee, won’t provoke much of insulin response at all. It’s not like autophagy goes from full “On” to full “Off,” as far as we know - it begins at a point and increases up to another point. I’d say the more fat one eats, the more autophagy will get damped down. Whether it’s worth it is up to the individual.