Do you think we (some of us) get "stuck" eating fewer veggies? (A biome issue?)


(Bob M) #1

We need a meal on Mondays we can reheat in the Instant Pot, as two of us eat at about 7-7:30pm, the other two eat at 8:30pm. So, I made this over the weekend, then we reheated on Monday:

This uses tomatillos and poblano peppers, but I thought these would be okay, since they were cooked under the broiler, for the peppers, you remove the broiled skin, and this cooks in the oven for about 90 minutes. I used over 4 pounds of pork too.

I ate two small bowls of this (the meat was perfectly cooked), and I was in the bathroom at least 5 times overnight. Yikes!

We used to make a cabbage casserole that was butter, cabbage we’d braise, then add to ground beef, cheese, etc. Put in pan and in the oven. We made this for the first time in a long time, two weeks ago. It tasted great, so I had too much of it. Again, I paid in the bathroom.

As part of a targeted keto diet, I tried eating a bean recipe. You soaked the beans overnight in salt and baking soda, rinsed, cooked for a long time with pork. Thought that would limit or eliminate any effect by the beans. Had horrible gas and had to go to the bathroom a lot.

These are things that I could have easily eaten years ago. Because I eat so few vegetables now, have I done something to myself that causes me issues? Such as having a biome not used to these? Or did I always have issues, and just forgot about them?


#2

I honestly believe so.

I have never seen so many people with issues with digestion of plants until I moved to the west. I have noticed that people of African & Asian origin that are on keto really thrive on plants/veg and have less issues with plant digestion. Which makes sense, because we ate plants/veg all the time. Meat and animal protein generally are expensive (compared to plants) in 3rd world countries so there is usually a generous portion of plant based food in every meal - plenty of vegetables of all kinds, with just enough protein to prevent kwashiorkor.

By contrast, I have noticed people of African origin on keto tend to have issues eating dairy. Which makes sense, because I don’t think I ate any dairy until I moved west. African diets don’t really include dairy so when we suddenly include this, a lot of issues arise. This applies to myself too & I avoid dairy now almost entirely.

So, perhaps adaptation counts for something. But I can’t bring myself to suffer through the issues caused by me eating dairy just so I can be adapted to it.


(Bob M) #3

I can definitely see where genetics could be an issue.

I happen to be 100% European, and I’m one of those who can eat dairy with little to no issues. I typically stick to A2 protein dairy (some cows, goats, sheep), but I seem to be fine regardless. (I do wonder about A1 sometimes, though.)

Dairy issues are definitely at least partly or mainly genetic.

I think plants might be similar, in terms of genetics. But it’s hard to tell sometimes, as even I can eat certain plants, but not others. For instance, had I made the chili with a red sauce and no peppers, I’d have had few or no issues. And last year, I grew hot peppers and fermented them, and those didn’t seem to cause issues.

It’s all so hard sometimes.

When I was eating very high carb, years ago, I remember passing gas all the time. Eating very low carb, low plants now, I almost never have gas. It’s rare. So maybe I’m one of those better off with fewer plants.


#4

Hi Bob. I think it’s a combination of genetics, and possibly that when we stop eating certain foods for extended periods of time our biome may change and we may loose the ezymes to digest those foods. As to dairy, I am Norwegian, and my ancestors would have eaten a lot of dairy, raw and untreated, and this my body does swimmingly with. Ultra-processed dairy from the supermarket not so much.

As to vegetables, I too do find now if I eat some vegetables such as broccoli, green beans and cabbage, my body doesn’t do too well with them. Yet I have no such reactions from berries. I haven’t eaten fruits since 12 October 2023 so I don’t know how my body would handle those. It may just be that your body never tolerated those vegetables all that well, or that you somewhere along the way lost the enzymes to digest them, as our biome changes all the time with what we eat. I do worry about loosing enzymes to digest certain foods, which I can see happening on exclusion diets if continued for a very long time. Of course, if that WOE is working wonderfully for the people on them, one could argue there is no need for them anyway to re-introduce their old foods. That is highly individual. But one thing is clear to me, without a well-functioning biome, all manner of issues ensues.


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #5

Hey, even though painful, it’s calories out, right? :grin:


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #6

Impossible to say. Your body has changed over time. You might have been having problems all along, that were masked by the other noise in the system, or you might have developed a sensitivity in the years since.

It could also be that these things were acting like a drug to which you used to be habituated, and now you’ve lost your tolerance. This often happens to drugs addicts and alcoholics who get and stay sober for a good amount of time, but then relapse. They often find that they have regained their sensitivity to the chemical, and it takes less to get drunk or high.

So, since we can’t go back, duplicate the universe several times, and run a different experiment on you in each separate universe, I doubt we’ll ever know for sure.

My Mexican cousin-in-law told me once that his favourite pastime used to be to go down to the local taco stand and watch the gringo tourists try to handle the hot sauce. But he found that when, after an absence from Mexico City for several years following his wedding to my cousin, when he returned to his favourite taco stand and ordered his favourite hot sauce, he nearly died from the spiciness. He had lost his tolerance over the time of his absence, lol!


#7

I don’t think dairy needs so much processing… But even that little may cause problems, apparently. I just say it must be some low level processing. Lower than bacon I suppose but I am not familiar with food industry procedures…

@ctviggen, sorry I forget things with time info in it, since when do you eat low-carb/keto?

I am probably totally European. I handle everything edible pretty well except big amount of carbs regularly. I lost my desire towards vegs, even my off days contain almost anything carby in big amounts but vegs so I would need an experiment day to check if 1-2kg of veggie dish would cause anything but it’s unlikely. But it’s my body, super stubborn… Even when I pretty much avoided lactose for a years, I went back to it without issues.
Sometimes I wonder if something would change after a longer time on carnivore. But I probably never will eat like that. But very low plant matter especially vegs, I do that since some time.

Less (even zero) gas on extreme low-carb, I think it’s the norm…? I had no problems on high-carb but yep, I had noticeable gas especially after eating a bunch of beans :slight_smile: Nothing on even keto. The gas must pass somehow, it’s how human bodies work but it must be super subtle so I can’t notice. And it’s probably way less too.