Do the users of this forum constitute a test/experimental group?

(Robert C) #21

I have a feeling that you are one of two types of ketoers in the forums.

I think there are people that view Keto as a way of life and ignore scales (bathroom and kitchen), calories, grams of X per day and are pretty much only focused on keeping carbs low. I think this group is usually the most successful.

There are others that worry about numbers of all types - calories per day in, total daily energy expenditure, body weight, daily gram macros etc.

So, a survey here would (I assume) get a lot of data from the “numbers” crowd and leave out (what I believe to be) the “success” group.

(bulkbiker) #22

Interestingly (well to me at least) I’m a recorder and monitor of “numbers” but do not construct what I eat around them so where would I fit? I don’t eat to macros but do record everything as well as blood glucose and ketone levels. Guess I’m just weird… I thought that’s what most people here did but maybe not…

(Robert C) #23

Where do you fit? Looks like group 2 :grinning:

I think there are easily two subtypes of the “recorders”.

  1. Those who let every next step depend on their last step.
  2. Those who just track to avoid depending on their (sometimes inaccurate) memory.

I think group 2 is better, call out bad sleep, work on high stress situations as well as big company meals, weddings, funerals etc. and expect weight changes.

But, (#1) notice carby weekday habits - get those nailed down, IF won’t help much after pancakes - nor do daily high overall numbers.

(bulkbiker) #24

So by implication I am “less successful” hmmmmmmmm
Maybe making judgemental calls like that isn’t so great ?

(John) #25

I don’t fit into your two types.

I weigh daily. I count Monday morning as “official.” I don’t track or measure what I eat. I have rules that I follow that generally keep me on track. I do see it as a permanent eating habit change.

I am not a numbers person, but I do seem to be successful so far.

(Kate Sargent) #26

I haven’t read about the Inutie or whatever initiative, but am a scientist. Absolutely correct thinking goinng on about sampling bias and all of the variable behavior (diet and exercise), variable health issues as to why people do keto (weight loss only, diabetics, liver disease) and the variable genetic background for each of us (keto to reduce blood lipids due to familial risk of heart disease, strokes, cancer, hyperlipidimemia) etc.
Now, if you had huge bucks from the NIH or an Angel investor, a huge nation consortium to be able to control for some variables, like age, gender, ethnicity, smoking, medications and medical history and were able to do a completely @prospective @ study (enrolling everyone who starts a keto diet and follow everyone for a few years regardless how how long they stay on keto) and THEN study everyone…
Then you might be able to get some useful data on some sections of participants.

But, who is going to pay for a study like this? It would have to be a group who cares about finding ways to reduce morbidity from obesity. Maybe the NIH or an Angel, but Pharma would lobby against funding a study that might lead to an obesity cure UNLESS they can figure out a way to make money from a drug that comes out of a follow up study of those who lose weight and why.

(Alec) #27

Do you think big pharma would actively lobby against a study who’s aims were to make people healthier??? If so, this is just shocking. Have they no morality at all?? :rage::rage:

(Bacon is the new bacon) #28

I know! I was shocked—SHOCKED, I tell you–to read that in Kate’s post. . . . :rofl:

(Alec) #29

When I first started in the cheese making company I work in, I was a total believer in the CW. I was worried I was selling my soul to the devil by making a saturated fat food for the masses that would ultimately kill them.

I have now learnt that cheese is a health food, and I feel much better. :joy::joy::joy:


Personally I think it’s the only way for the diet to become successful long-term. I know others will disagree, and I know there’s no one-model to fit all and that people have their own reasons for doing things their own way.

But the psychological stress of obsessively counting, whether it be calories, ketones, or whatever, is a sign of neuroses imo. The stress of “I can only eat during this specific window” or “I went three grams over my carbs”, I don’t see how that could possibly lead to long-term success. There’s no way for me to prove it, but my gut feeling tells me that it’s people who stress over these things are the ones most susceptible to “falling off the wagon,” of using the excuse of “well I failed today, so might as well fail all week” - because when another outside source of stress comes in (work related, illness, etc.) then it will be too much to handle.

(Doug) #31

People are different - is dealing with all the data fun, or is it a chore?

(Robert C) #32

Sorry about that - my wording was wrong. It was supposed to be about what I have observed - not to imply any judgement.

(Robert C) #33

I am somewhat of a “numbers” person and - yes - they can produce a black-and-white picture of the world. I too cannot prove your gut feeling but, definitely agree.

(Robert C) #34

Well, of course, anything with two types in the real world really actually represents a spectrum.

This is really important. You can weigh, obsess, hack, etc. numbers all you want. Get the way of life down and I think your body will thank you.

(Michael - Don't expect miracles and you won't be disappointed.) #35

I don’t like to guess. If I don’t measure it then I don’t know how much it is. I eat to macro ratios. I weigh food portions for every meal. I record all on a spreadsheet and I do not consider it obsessive nor a sign of neurosis. I consider it logging valuable data and a sensible thing to do. I’ve always done it and will continue because I like to do so and find it satisfying and interesting.

That said. I don’t carry my scale around every where I go. I eat out occasionally and just guess. And I don’t get upset doing so.

(Shane) #36

I know, the ones that lose heaps of weight and say how great their scales are and the ones that have failed miserably and threw away their scales in disgust. I use mine several times a day.
:stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: :innocent:


I guess that would all depend on your definition of “fail”. The people most likely to not get down to “ideal weight” are also the most likely to have the health complications of severe hyperinsulinemia, and measure success on a different scale - like reversing disease.

(Shane) #38

I’m also one of those people.