Do I have to be in “nutritional ketosis?”

(EMILY) #1

I really need some help here.
Do I have to stay in nutritional ketosis to lose weight? I find my blood ketone levels drop consistently under 0.5.
Last night I was 0.6 this evening 0.3. Does this really mean I’m “kicked out of ketosis?” I know it takes a while for blood ketones to change so I cannot assume my dinner tonight caused the lower reading.
My weight loss has stalled for a while (2 months -ish) and despite a couple EF rounds I always go back to the weight where I seem to be “stuck.”
I’m 5’1 - there is no way 155lbs is my “ideal.”

I read somewhere on this forum that if my goal is to lose weight (not diabetic) then the only blood ketone readings that matter are zero and ten.

I’m really looking for some thoughts, suggestions, and experience. I’ve been Keto since Feb 2018 and so far lost ~25lbs.
Thank you in advance.

(Terence Dean) #2

Hi Emily,
The short answer to your first question is no, you don’t. I lost my first 10 kilos with my ketones at less than 0.4 mmol/L. You are in ketosis if your blood ketones show more than 0.0, Nutritional Ketosis is anything above 0.5, Optimal Nutritional Ketosis is between 1.0 - 3.0 mmol/L depending who you read.

So being in Ketosis is no guarantee that you will lose weight, there could be a number factors why the scales do not appear to be moving in the right direction. I would suggest you try tracking your macros by inputting your daily food items using an appropriate app, there are plenty to choose from.

See whether you can detect any hidden carbs in your food, if you are using artificial sweeteners consider isolating them to see if that moves it along, check your protein requirements are correct for your height, weight and body fat %.

You may also need to reset your macros because remember you have lost 25lbs, so macros for when you began Keto will not be the same now you are lighter. Start with these things and see how you go. You are doing great, 25lbs is a great achievement, KCKO!

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #3

The level of 0.5 for being “in ketosis” is rather arbitrary, so as Terence says, don’t worry about it. Just concentrate on keeping your carbohydrate low, your protein at 1.0-2.0 grams per kilo of lean body mass, and fill in the rest of your calories with fat. I just watched a fascinating video of Dr. Bikman explaining why we don’t need to fear protein when we are keeping carbohydrate low enough to be in ketosis, and it appears that there is quite a bit of wiggle room, where protein is concerned.

As far as what the scale is telling you, are your measurements as stuck as your scale weight? I am stuck at the moment myself, and I keep noticing changes in my body, even though the scale isn’t going down.

If your doctor would be willing to authorize an insulin test and an HbA1c test, the results might tell us something about where you are metabolically.

(EMILY) #4

Hi Terence,
Thank you for your response. Sometimes all the information out there can make your head spin. I agree that if your body is making ketones then you must be in ketosis.
I do track my macros via MFP and I have reset them since losing the initial weight. I also take measurements but they have not improved lately. I’m not gaining - just not losing either.
I haven’t started eating anything I was not eating when I first began this WOE. I found myself much happier when I wasn’t obsessed with staying above 0.5. However after such a stall I was curious if going below nutritional ketosis was impacting my progress. Thanks again for your support!

(EMILY) #5

Hi Paul,
Thank you for the comments on protein. I do worry that maybe sometimes I eat too much - usually in the form of chicken wings - because YUM!!! It’s also what I eat when my husband needs pizza lol.
We checked my insulin levels a few months ago and all looked good. I’ll review again when I get home. Thanks again for the reply!

#6

Hi Paul- any chance you could link that video by Dr. Bikman?

Thanks!

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #7

I believe this is the one. If it’s not, send me a private message, because that will get my attention more easily than a post in the thread.

(German Ketonian) #8

I’d add this excellent post by Amy Berger on how to not be a “ketard”:


this explains the difference between ketosis and fat adaptation

(Ken) #9

The real issue is not Ketosis, but Lipolysis. Ketosis is only a part of Lipolysis, and to.focus on it is “Nutty Keto Dogma”. Not showing many ketones is fairly irelevant, as long as you’re still in Lipolysis.

(karen) #10

Just want to mention something that is Not making me happy! I love chicken wings too, and it turns out they can have quite a few CARBS in them (I think many are either lightly breaded or dipped in rice flour or corn starch). One website said up to 2.6 g per winglette / drumlette. It’s very variable. (Dominos aren’t bad, about 3 net carbs in 4 wings.) Considering how i can go through wings at a bar or the movies, having no idea how they’re done, that could be my total carb allowance right there - possibly for the week. :cry:

Do you make your own? That’s certainly my plan from now on.

(EMILY) #11

Hi Karen,
Thanks for the insight. I typically order mine from a local pizza place. They aren’t breaded but I’ll have to ask them if they dunk them in corn starch or anything before they fry them. I doubt it but it’s always best to be certain.

(EMILY) #12

Thanks for sharing this article!

(EMILY) #13

Hi Paul,
I reviewed my blood panel from 5/11/2018 and my insulin level was 9. I did not see the other. At the point when my blood was drawn I had been Keto for about 2.5mos.

(Lonnie Hedley) #14

Are they real crunchy? Like @kib said, it’s really common to lightly toss them in rice flour to give them a crunchy exterior. Might not translate to much, but they could contribute to carb creep.

(EMILY) #15

Hi Lonnie,
They are only super crunchy when I ask them to make them extra crispy, meaning fry them longer.