Disappointed in KetoMojo for scientific testing

(Bob M) #1

Take a look at these results. I have almost 1,600 blood sugar and ketone samples. I’ve used urine strips (stopped years ago, as they no longer registered ketones), two different ketone meters, three different blood sugar testers (two pin prick, one continuous glucose monitor). I’m currently using Contour Next Ez blood sugar monitor and the KetoMojo ketone monitor and the ketonix breath ketone monitor. The columns are from left to right, number of rows, date, day, time, KetoMojo monitor at home, a different KetoMojo at work, ketonix (which I have only at work, blood sugar via a Contour Next Ez (one at work, one at home, but results only in one column), and the glucose-ketone index (GKI):

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(The many other columns for the urine ketones or other blood sugar and ketone monitors are hidden.)

The problem is the ketones for the two different KetoMojos are all over the map. Look at Wednesday, 2/20: 0.1 at home and 0.6 at work? Then today, Monday, 2/25, 0.3 at home and 1.3 at work? What? These both were synced with the electronic device that comes with them, and both use the same strips. The last time this happened, I used their testing solution and wasted two strips and got exactly the same on both meters. Then I tested immediately thereafter using the same blood drops for new strips using the two meters and got completely different results.

The problem? I want to perform some scientific tests, where I eat more protein and less fat or less protein and more fat to see what happens to ketones. The current data I have indicates that higher fat = higher ketones, but I’ve never done a formal test with calorie counting. I can’t do that if I get this much error.

I realize there is error in every measuring device. 100% accurate for pin-prick blood monitors is plus or minus 15% of the real value. But to get 0.3 at home and 1.3 at work is ridiculous. And now I think all the other values I took at home are wrong, as I really had very few carbs yet my ketone readings were low.

Anyone have similar problems with the KetoMojo?

(And please don’t tell me not to test. I’m an engineer. I paid over $1,000 US to buy a continuous glucose monitor and testers in Sweden and have them shipped to me so that I could test Ted Naiman’s theory that higher protein was better. I found no blood sugar rise eating 120+ grams of protein per meal and have switched from higher fat to higher protein. I now find higher fat to be unpalatable. You’ll note the nearly 1,600 tests I have recorded. I like testing.)

(bulkbiker) #2

What are you expecting to see?.. blood ketones like blood glucose (and cholesterol) will go up and down during the day depending on multiple things… My Ketones are highest when fasting and low in the mornings over evenings…
Blood glucose can do crazy shit without any apparent cause… without column headings its hard to make sense of your numbers…

(Mark Rhodes) #3

I would also mention that using different units is where your discrepancy comes from. I find my unit to test well to itself. If I use the wife’s I get BG & BHB up or down from where I am used to seeing them. It is not a single number to be alarmed about. If you are, retest. I often get different values. Like You I also use a Ketonix.

What is useful to me are the trends, not the highlights.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #4

It’s a very dynamic, noisy system. To get my Ketonix readings into an understandable perspective I graph them to a moving average. Is that less ‘accurate’ than the unadjusted sample values? I don’t know, but I can sure see the pattern of change over time a whole lot more clearly.

For example, here’s a comparison between two successive days, May 17 and 18. On May 17 I had a nearly 50 ppm spike followed soon after by an even greater crash. I compare this to May 18 which was a fairly typical day:

(Bob M) #5

What I was hoping to see is the following. If I eat very high fat one day (or multiple days), the next day/days, I should see higher ketones. If, by contrast, I lower the fat content and eat much higher protein for a day (or several days), I should see lower ketones. If I eat later one night, I should see higher blood glucose the next morning; if I finish dinner earlier one day, I should see lower blood glucose the next morning.

Scientifically, it cannot be two different meters of the same brand that causes the issue, as both Keto Mojo meters gave me either the exact same value or very similar values (multiple tests) for their testing solution. That rules out the meters.

I see all the time on this board, “I did X and my ketones {or blood sugar} did Y”, yet when I attempt to do exactly the same thing, I end up with poor results. So, I have to say that anyone making these statements may not realize the complexities involved and may be misleading people.

#6

I was about to make this exact point. For anyone to say I did X and my Y did Z when it comes to blood sugar or ketones definitely do not “realize the complexities involved,” as you perfectly stated. Our bodies are too noisy and filled with variables to reliably do that with the devices available to us. Worse yet, as you point out, it’s potentially misleading, at best, and dangerous, at worst, for any of us to pronounce anything sounding like causation (which should be obvious in any N=1 statement anyway, but people sometimes tend to forget that and erroneously default to Occam’s Razor principle that the simplest explanation (or solution) is most often the correct one.)

(bulkbiker) #7

What do you think the mechanism is for that?

Again why do you think that… if GNG is indeed demand driven then the amount of protein you eat will have minimal effect.

I think it far more likely that it will depend on what you eat rather than when.

Our bodies simply don’t work in that binary way I’m sad to say…