Different degrees of Keto ranging from "mild" to "medical Keto"

(icky) #1

So, I’ve been checking out Dom D’Agostino’s work on Keto and in the video below, he describes different “levels” of a ketogenic diet.

The “mildest” one he describes is this per day:
200 g fat, 150 g protein, 50 g carbs
He calls this a 1:1 ratio, because it’s 200g of fat vs 200g of protein + carbs

Then a more extreme “medical” form would be this per day:
400 g fat, 90 g protein, 10 g carbs
He calls this a 4:1 ratio, because it’s 400 g of fat vs 100 g of protein + carbs

And then there’s the variations in between that and there’s an even more extreme one than the 4:1 ratio, used for the treatment of severe childhood epilepsy.

I’m curious to hear where y’all are at on this spectrum of mild to extreme…?

Here’s the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxoLntojSzw

#2

Couldn’t watch too much, the sight / sound of Rhonda Patrick makes me want to drown puppies, BUT, I’m a big fan of Dom, he’s done some pretty cool research, but for the most part, caring about make believe ranges of ketosis, or your ketone levels is useless for the majority of the population, for those doing the “real” Ketogenic diet which almost none of us do for medical reasons, that’s a totally different situation. They directly benefit from being anal about it and having high ketone levels all the time, in the case of Epileptics, it’s literally necessary, But for the majority, just keeping the carbs down to the point where you constantly have ketones present is all it takes to get the results most are looking for whether it be reversing diabetes, losing bodyfat while eating awesome tasting foods, getting rid of brain fog etc.

IMO the only reason chasing ketones ever became a thing is that we thought the higher ketones meant faster fat loss, which we know isn’t the case now. Another thing to keep in mind is Dom doesn’t do keto, he and most of his people do “Modified Atkins”, which is probably closer to what the majority actually winds up doing. When he says Ketogenic Diet, he means the real one!

#3

I haven’t watched the video. And wrote a too long comment so I delete it and go for a short one (for me).

In all my keto years, my fat:protein ratio was somewhere between 0.5 and 2. My ideal ratio is around 0.8. 1 may work if I am really good at protein minimalization.
I don’t need a special ratio (except I like fat so below 1 was tricky until I trained myself to focus on lean meat), the above one is to avoid overeating and even getting a tiny deficit for fat-loss.

Oh and my net plant carbs should be very low. Animal carbs don’t matter.

It would be a very hard situation if I needed some insanely high ratio (2:1 is already a tall order, that’s 80% fat! hard to do without serious overeating for many of us who can’t eat little protein but don’t have a huge energy need), at least I probably could handle the fattiness, more sooner than later… I love fat but my body don’t need much.

I can’t imagine many people could handle the 4:1 one. It probably would make most people very quickly sick. I love eating lots of fat but not with less than minimal protein (especially if I don’t even have carbs to soak up the fat). Yeah I wrote I could handle a high ratio eventually but not THAT high and I can do massive overeating but not every day. That’s not nice. And I mean even doing plant-based diet would be nicer than that to me. My fat percentage never liked being extreme.

(KM) #4

My only objection is semantic: keto that’s too ‘mild’ for an individual isn’t actually ketogenic. It may indeed be healthy and helpful, but it’s not keto.

I mix it up and I don’t calculate macros any more. I would estimate I’m under 25 net carbs almost every day, which may or may not have me in ketosis, and under 20 total carbs maybe 2x a week, which definitely will. I almost never eat starches, sugars, processed foods or seed oils. My carby downfalls are usually either a beer, or just more non-starchy veg (tomatoes, carrots, peppers, onions) than I can get away with.

(Ohio ) #5

I bet I’m on the extreme end do to Coconut oil, supplements ? My latest post-election view of keto “diet” is that it’s actually bio-hacking. Ketosis is a natural state, disregarded by the medical establishment. Makes me paranoid to even be a member on this forum. Tinfoil hat on.

(KM) #6

Ken Berry’s “Lies My Doctor Told Me” finally came in at my library (online) and it occurred to me to wonder if someone’s monitoring my reading list. Tin foil hat, on.

(Bob M) #7

These also depend on how long you’ve been in keto. I started 1/1/14:

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And if you’re in ketosis for cancer or epilepsy, or some mental illnesses, those high levels of ketones are better.

But when I was listening to Dom’s podcast with a woman who counsels clients for ketones for cancer, she said the actual ketone levels between different people eating the same diet were quite variable.

(Bob M) #8

Another way to look at it, coffee and water only fast over 4.5 days, so you don’t get into fights about exactly how many carbs you ate, because all the carbs were in the 2 cups of (black) coffee in the morning, and no other calories:

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(icky) #9

I don’t do Keto for weightloss. I mean, since peri-menopause, I’ve put on weight, which I’m hoping a keto diet will help me shed again at some point. So I’m one of those people only doing Keto/ only interested in Keto for medical reasons. I don’t want “high levels of ketones” as such… I’m not chasing that… As I understand it, out bodies pee out excess ketones, so having high levels can be somewhat cosmetic. But I do want to be very firmly in ketosis. I came to Keto via 15 years of fasting for 2 - 4 weeks at a time, several times a year. While I’d be in ketosis during a fast, was literally the only time in my life I’d ever feel healthy/ normal/ happy/ energised. For the longest time, I’d be like “Yah, this is great, but unfortunately, fasting permanently is not compatible with staying alive, so I’m going to have to accept that this is a temporary phenomenon.” Eventually realising that things like Keto or a fast-mimicking diets were options and that it’s possible to permanently be in ketosis was a huge revolution to me. So that’s my journey and my motivation and why medical keto matters to me. And it’s making me realise that the “fat-loss Keto diet” isn’t going to work for me… I didn’t realise how far off it was from medical Keto… I’d sort of (muddledly) understood that they were basically the same thing, that Keto is Keto… But listening to some Dom D’Agostino videos and podcasts this week has really clarified this for me…

(Ohio ) #10

I had to double take here because “Lies I taught in medical school” was a book I just ordered. Looks like I’ll have to add to my conspiracy theory library. That’ll make 5 books in my special library I carry around in a toolbox.

(KM) #11

Does the metal of the toolbox protect you or is it also lined with tinfoil? :grin:

(Ohio ) #12

No. High grade plastic, to keep weight down. I live out of my toolboxes, as I’m constantly moving. I do however have a EMF detector !

*I also have a separate toolbox just for supplements, more critical than food, to me.

(Bean) #13

Librarians tend to be pretty hard core about personal data. For physical library items you can have your history turned off at most libraries. in fact, most libraries make you request to turn on your history, although they can see who checked an item out and what you currently have checked out.

OverDrive/ Libby, I can only see who had checked things out (but not what), and who was requesting a specific item. I’ve never gone digging to see if I can track more than that. I’ll have to look. I’m transition out of the library this next week, so I’ll be in the digital library buying everything I might want for the next year, lol.