Delayed bowel movements, pain

(Martin) #1

I’ve been on Keto for about 3 months. Lost weight, almost back to my base adult weight. Good energy. Feel light on my feet and energetic.

On the negative side. Every 4 days or so, I feel pain sometimes in the middle of my belly, sometimes along the left side. This lasts about a day, then I poop quite a bit in one day, sometimes there is pain with bowel movements. Often the first bowel movements are fairly normal consistancy. Then at some point the last stool comes out loose.

I have experienced some of this when I first went on the diet, but then it went away, though I don’t have many bowel movements. But the last few weeks there is this pattern. If I hadn’t significantly changed my diet I might consider things like a partial intestinal blockage or worse.

I love how I feel in general and I am not addicted to food like I was. I can go long periods without eating, though generally I eat three meals a day. But I no longer feel panic around food, late night snacking urges, and so on.

But this problem has me a bit stumped for a solution. Anyone had something similar? What did you do?

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #2

Welcome to the forums!

I’m sorry you’re having this problem. The symptoms you mention are more what I experienced on my high-carb diet, before going keto. However, there are some things to look into:

First, be sure you are getting the right amount of salt, because too little sodium causes constipation, and too much causes the opposite. And try to be consistent in the amount of salt you are getting each day.

Second, you may be eating either too much or too little fibre for what your body needs. Many people on these forums have found fibre extremely helpful, wheras an equal number find it deadly to their bowels. You will have to do some experimenting to find out if you fall into either category. Alternatively, you might be in the majority, for which fibre does neither harm nor good.

Third, what is your source of fats? If you are eating a lot of “vegetable” oils (the kind of highly processed industrial seed oils, such as soybean, canola, cottonseed, sunflower, corn, and so forth), that might be having an effect, and you might do better on fats that are mostly mono-unsaturated and saturated (butter, bacon grease, tallow, lard). Avoid MCT oil and other supplements until your digestion settles and then reintroduce them slowly and carefully.

Fourth, if you’d like to supply us with, say, a week’s worth of menus, we could take a look and see if we can spot any problematic foods.

(Martin) #3

Thanks for your response Paul. I was using MCT oil. At first I had some trouble with it. Then this went away. But recently I switched over to mainly ghee. I am not getting too little salt. I don’t watch it carefully, but I doubt it’s low. Fibre could well be an issue.
My main foods are wild meat, sometimes omega 3 fish, but that’s gotten real expensive. Spinach, cauliflour, lettuce, tomatoes - some small addition of onions - eggs, chicken, occasional bacon. avacadoes, I was eating quite a bit of ecological sour kraut for a while, but overdid it - tastewise. I am starting to shift from summer food to fall/winter food, so there will be more soups and so more variety in vegetables. I got on a real salad kick in the summer. But I tend to not eat salads once it is colder and perhaps have kept going on these longer because it’s been easier on the keto diet. That’s an overview.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #4

How do you do on ruminant meat—beef, lamb, venison, goat, bison?

(Martin) #5

I eat wild venison and did fine, but it was expensive and I also thought I’d up the fat in the protein source so went with wild pig more. I did ok with beef, though I’d prefer wild meat. I haven’t eaten much goat, lamb or any bison.

(Martin) #6

I can add a little information:
Following the suggestions of a book on Keto I aim for
75 grams of protein - 1 gram per kilo of one’s target weight.
Under 20 grams of carbs
Fat I don’t have a rule for. It’s the highest calorie per meal.
This led to about three weeks of tiredness and then I think I went over to using fat for energy.
I enjoy my meals quite a lot

The other context information is details about my bowels, reader beware.
Last night, I went through the stages before bowel movemnt.
Pressure in the gut. Pain in the middle and left side from middle of torso down. Not incredible pain, but enough to disturb sleep. Perhaps a little extra burping and then toward bowel movement time some flatulance. Neither gas release dramatic.
In the night I decided to do, in bed, some very light crunches. Tightening my abdomen. This seemed to help things along and reduced pain and pressure.
So, I did it again when I woke up in the morning.
Not long after I had a bowel movement.
My stool was slightly loose/soft. No banana stool, more like squeezing out clay. It was not an easy bowel movement. Me waiting as it sluggishly continued. So, longer sitting time on the toilet. Some very mild pain, this time. Other times have had more pain.
If it goes like previous times, there is more coming and the last wll be wet.
I think the crunches did help and the process was less painful.
I am guessing that the stool is thick or different somehow and this interferes with peristalsis.
Perhaps there is fat in the stool or lining the intestines and this clogs things up. But the general impression is that the stool is not moving from the top to exit well.

#7

Just a thought but I wonder if it might be the toms? There are an amount of people who don’t tolerate nightshades well, of which I have discovered I am one. I can eat bell peppers without any repercussions if I remove the skins, but even skinned and deseeded tomatoes cause violent gut reactions in me; reflux, cramps, and loose stools.

May not be the case for you, but it won’t be too much hassle to cut them out for a bit and see if there’s any difference : )

(Martin) #8

Thanks. My father was sensitive to them - though he got rheumatic symptoms. I used to eat a lot of tomatoes so I don’t think so, but it’s worth taking out and making sure. I’ll give that a shot.

#9

I would have said the same, tbh. Also about Brazil nuts. I think prior to starting this WOE, there was just so much ‘noise’ from a combination of all the bad things that it would have been impossible to single out individual culprits. Reflux was a ‘normal’ part of my life, as were bloating and general discomfort.

Whatever the cause in your case though, I hope you can find and eliminate it soon : )

(Joey) #10

I’ll simply suggest that you double back on this conclusion … especially since you “don’t watch it carefully.” Instead, try watching it carefully. :wink:

The amount of salt one needs on keto tends to be markedly higher.

E.g., do you heavily salt your food (or water)? Does it still taste pleasant?

You have to learn to listen to your new tastebud signals for higher electrolyte needs. What you’re used to vs what you now need may be in totally different leagues.

(Robin) #11

If your pain in the lower left abdomen is very sharp and localized, it could be you have some diverticulosis going on.
Are you pretty regular? Do you wish your bowel movements were looser? I ask all this because I experienced all that.
If you have some diverticulitis flair-ups, you can manage that by stopping constipation and hard stools. (First, drink lots of water while eating and chew well. Obviously.)

For sure take a magnesium citrate powder in a big glass of water (and some salt) right before bed. Magnesium is what they use to clean us out for a colonoscopy. You can take twice the recommended dose and “clean yourself out”. Then adjust dosage to suit your preferences.
Magnesium has the added benefit of helping you sleep and relieving muscle cramps.

Also, just in case it is diverticulitis, try giving up veggies and nuts for long enough to see if that helps. Common culprits that I miss dearly. But worth it to have no pain.

Good luck!

(Martin) #12

Thanks for double checking me. I always ate too much salt and as an adult, I’ve had to consciously reduce, though I generally had more than the recommended dose. Put a nice sea salt in the equation AND the encouragement people writing about Keto give it, I would guess I am getting more than twice the daily maximum recommende dose. But perhaps I am too influenced by norms. What’s a good rule of thumb or equation for salt intake. I absolutely do not end up with an urge for more salt. I drink, also, mainly mineral water and take magnesium. But maybe I should get an even broader base. Might not be table salt I need, but perhaps the specrum.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #13

If you are eating twice the U.S. recommendation (2.3 g of sodium/day), then you are just within the actual healthy range, which is 4-6 g of sodium/day, or 10-15 g of table salt (sodium chloride). This per the PURE study, and another one that came out around the same time (and the name of which I have forgotten).

(Martin) #14

I have had diverticulitis problems. Once a year perhaps. I have a pocket there. At least, an accupuncturist said I did and that fit with my problem. I also notice somtimes there is an odd fluttery feeling which I don’t like right when I am eating food on Keto. This generally goes away. Pretty fast.

Can Keto exacerbate diverticulitis? Perhaps the kind of food ends up more sticky and likely to clump in the pocket.

I have generally been pretty regular. But now on Keto I poop much less. That’s not surprising. I don’t have the usual constipation symptoms. I don’t feel like I want to go, but can’t. However it seems like it sort of builds up somewhere and when it comes it isn’t easy in the last stretch. I’ll try the magnesium citrate powder, thanks for the suggestion. I do take Magnesium but not that form.

(Martin) #15

I’ll weigh my salt. I am pretty sure I am above the medium dose they recommend for Keto that you mentioned, but I’ll make sure. Thanks.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #16

Exactly the opposite, in fact, if posts on these forums are to be believed. It is seeds and fibre that seem to cause more problems, that and the leaky bowels that result from too much carbohydrate and poor-quality (i.e., polyunsaturated) fats.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #17

Don’t overdo the salt; the PURE range includes sodium from all foods, not just added salt. But the kidneys excrete sodium more readily, once we cut carbohydrate intake and thus lower our insulin.

(Martin) #18

Well, this is happening, whatever this is, more often than I used to get that diverticulitis problem. It’s not quite as much pain, I would say. And oddly it can start in the middle of my belly, than later shifts over the left. That could be gas. It all could be gas, though I’ve never had trouble releasing gas either up or down, so there’s something new here. And I think the tiny almost no movement sit ups I did actually helped. Today was less problematic than the last time. Or my body is getting used to it. I hope the latter is the case.

#19

To be frank, my guts were all over the place for the first month or so of Keto. And that’s not uncommon at all. Your body definitely needs to go through a thing or two while it adjusts, even more so if how you ate previously was super different.

(Martin) #20

It’s been 11 weeks for me. Though I can easliy imagine this is still adjusting. I have done Paleo before and a milder kind of Keto. But the amount of vegetables is much smaller now.