Debating my first fast

#21

But what was the lifespan of a caveman?
Not being sassy, seriously wondering what the long term implications are…

#22

If they could survive childhood, not get killed by a predator or rival, and not catch diseases like pox? Pretty good, actually.

#23

40 years on average if they lived past childhood. So says google anyway

(Robert C) #24

Any number anyone comes up with is always disputed.
If you include infant deaths - the averages go down.
If you include preventable deaths (like if they ate the way they did but lived like us - didn’t have to hunt or die hunting - a warm bed in a protective house etc.) - the averages go down.
If they became heavy, they might even let the rest of the tribe eat more to avoid the situation where they get run down by predators (or - of course, you don’t want to be the fattest cannibal :grinning:).
There are many things to make it incomparable - making fasting okay or not based on their lifespan would be a big leap of logic.

Maybe a better thing to think about is that many religions have done it safely for thousands of years (I think there are other reasons it is generally safe written up in Dr. Fung’s “The Obesity Code” - a must read on fasting).

#25

Nope. Anthropologists aren’t concrete with their answers, as death rates for cavemen tended to go high at certain ages, but the average seems to be around 60. But cavemen also had an infant mortality rate of over 40%, which is what skews those “average lifespans:” if you have four people, one who lived to be 80, one who lived to be 60, and two who died at age 5, that brings the average way down.

So, again, cavemen who survived infancy, disease, predators, and rivals, lived to pretty good ages all things considered.

#26

I still have no idea who Dr Fung is or what half of what you guys are talking about.
Still stuck on- eat lots of fat til you’re full!! But only eat during this window? So for example today for me- I’m trying to do 18/6 for now

Woke up at 6am
Coffee with coconut cream and water til 1pm

1pm- 2 eggs scrambled with thick salami and a very small amount of frozen kale. Half a beef burger patty from last night and one fat bomb.

4pm a cup of homemade broth, couple bites of tuna salad with full fat vegan mayo

6-7pm - Brussels sprouts fried with bacon and walnuts. 2 fat bombs- a spoonful of peanut butter

Net carbs was 12, calories were not high, fat was highest
I’m full. But did I eat enough? (Yes because I’m full right?) hard to get used to after years of carbs are evil then carbs are your friend and now carbs are evil again!! Whiplash!!

(Robert C) #27

Look up “Fung Aetiologo of Obesity” on YouTube - a 6 part series that explains everything (and he is a good speaker!).

Without that you will just be feeling around in the dark.

#28

This may be part of the problem. It seems it would do you good to invest in a bit more research time from this type of reputable source so that you can gain clarity and eliminate some of your misconceptions.

It’s actually eat until “satiety,” which can occur long before you are “full.”

You may need to forget about timed eating windows and fasts until you have been on keto for longer than 3 weeks and are fat adapted. Then you can get a feel for how to eat. It’s really not this complicated.

Cutting out the fat bombs and eating real food fats, may also help you. Though you don’t say what kind of fat bombs they are. They may be ok. Peanut butter may need to be rethought as well, if they’re accompanying 3 fat bombs a day.

#29

I’ve only just started fasting this week and I’ve been doing Keto for 6 weeks with a minor lapse in the middle. The reason I’ve started to fast is that I haven’t lost any weight or inches since day one and was told I should “switch it up”.
I’m not hungry until mid day anymore anyway.
The fat bombs are coconut butter, coconut oil and black cocoa. .9 nc, 9fat, 1pro

(Robert C) #30

I looked through the thread a bit but could not find what your goal weight or current weight is.
If you are trying to lose 100 or more pounds - this would all be very strange.
If you are a few pounds above your goal weight - you might just be having a disagreement with your own body as to what your best weight is (for you survival).

#31

Right. You said 3 weeks full keto. The break in the middle when you’re not keto, that you haven’t lost weight, and that you are stressing about how and what to eat indicates that you are likely still in induction phase and not yet fat adapted.

I will say that I did a 91 hour water fast at week 6 after having lost only about 6 pounds. It was OK because even before keto, I didn’t have strong hunger cues. But the 72 hour fast I did after 8 weeks when I clearly crossed into fat adaptation was better. The only time I ever went off plan was last weekend, after fat adaptation. Imo, it makes a huge difference.

Instead of the fat bombs, I’d rather see you add an extra egg cooked in a corresponding increase in butter or whatever you cooked them in. The whole ground beef patty. Some extra slices of bacon. Then maybe just have one fat bomb if you feel you need a treat.

I would say you should give it a full 6-8 weeks full on plan, no breaks before you start tinkering with it. Fat adaptation is actually a crucial part of making it work. Patience is necessary as your body reroutes things. Rushing this is turning it into a fad diet.

#32

I’m 5’6 155lbs
My goal would be somewhere around 140 OR just a change in body composition.
I’m quite muscular, but still have a good layer of fat that I haven’t been able to get rid of since having kids (11 and 15 years ago)

#33

Ok that’s fair. I’ll stay away from the long fasts for a bit longer. I’m liking the 18/6 tho as it definitely helps me eat less. Less fat bombs, more eggs… why is peanut butter so frowned upon? It just makes me so happy, even just a small spoonful lol

(Robert C) #34

Your body could definitely be happy with 155 and feel 140 is far too low for survival.
After all, you said you had 11 and 15 year olds :grinning:.
Stress (work, children, toxic people etc.), sleep issues (are you getting 8 hours?), over exercise, alcohol and caffeine - all of these can make your body want to hold on to fat.
And they confound keto any IF/EF attempts (which can be viewed as a stressor also).

If you have not already, get all of these dialed in - then consider more drastic fasting (if even necessary)

#35

No. The PB is ok if it works for you. I was just trying to suss out your weight loss issue.

It does look like you’re really close to your goal weight. I’ve read that can be tougher. Imo, even more important to give your body a chance to switch over to fat burning. You’ll get there. And the shortened eating window will be fine too. I’ve always eaten that way, keto or not.

Also, be sure to track your NSVs. Measure, see how your clothes are fitting, etc. Even when I was only down about 8 pounds, I’d lost about 2 inches from my waist and and inch from my chest, and inches from arms and legs.

I look forward to your updates!

#36

I sleep typically from 10-5:30
Don’t drink
Weightlifting 3-4x week
Pretty happy life. Great marriage, awesome kids… pretty chill job lol.
I’ve said before that I’ve worked with dieticians and doctors on specialized diets and theyve all been blown away by my body’s ability to hold fat.
I’m determined to beat the “that’s just what your body wants” answer

#37

[quote=“kandescent, post:35, topic:75727”]
I look forward to your updates!
[/quote]B

Thanks! I’m excited about this WOE. I’m just eager to see some physical results. I’m really happy with my increase in energy and that fact that I have no mid day crashes anymore!!

(Robert C) #38

Well, if that is the case - maybe try fasting after you are much more sure you are completely fat-adapted (a few months - not weeks). But, if your body is “that type” - you may have to always IF with extra EFs after vacations and holidays to keep a particular number.