Just wondering thoughts on whether you bother counting the carbs in Non starchy veggies. seems like most of the Keto Guru like Dr Berry and Berg as well as Mark Apple suggest not bothering and just eat your fill because of the benefits and impact they have on Blood sugar.
I am trying to stay under 20 net carbs and worry too many veggies would take me over if I don’t count.
They say they don’t want people worrying about these type veggies or trying to measure and figure out their carb count.
THoughts?
Counting Non starchy veggies?
Kroman
(David )
#1
lfod14
#2
I don’t. Don’t forget the 20g number is made up, everybody has different tolerances for what they can take in and remain in ketosis most of the time, 20g is just the number that most will be fine with. Plus, many of us (like me) do much better with the extra fiber.
SomeGuy
(Joey)
#3
I used CarbManager for almost a year to track everything I ate/drank, and got to see my gross vs. net-of-fiber carbs up close. As a result, I learned a lot about the macros of what I was eating. But frankly, it wasn’t long before I found it to be not overly interesting. Once the knowledge gained - didn’t need to keep at it. For me the lesson was…
Yes, starchy veggies typically contain a lot of (digestible) carbs, especially given how they’re typically prepared (smashed, mashed, fried in seed oils…). But, non-starchy veggies rarely present any of these digestible carbs. On the contrary, the fiber-bound carbs often pass through without anywhere near the absorption of say, a potato.
Unless you have a particular digestive issue or reaction to plant toxins, I believe the leafy green ones are entirely irrelevant to a carb-restricted WOE. They do manage to fill you up with minimal caloric content, which is advantageous if you’re actually trying to feel “full” without eating too many calories (I’m not a big fan of this line of thinking, CICO, but some are, so I mention it).
FWIW, I eat a nightly heaping dinner salad piled high with spinach, other leafy greens, broccoli, peppers, cucumbers, olives, hemp seeds, avocado, … usually adding an egg, sardines, cheese, plus some other meat(s)… perhaps next to a thick steak or burger/dog. I don’t consider any of those green things as mattering in the least in terms of my enjoying a highly restricted low-carb eating style.
Go for it!
Belisarius
#4
Eat (and drink) whatever you please - as long as you remain consistently in ketosis. As already pointed out, 20 grams net/total is an arbitrary number and your specific max may be higher or lower. Determine this, don’t guess. To measure it accurately will require something more than ‘pee’ sticks. That said, carbs are carbs no matter the source - chains of glucose and/for fructose molecules. You metabolize them all the same. If you are diabetic, prediabetic or already have metabolic issues, why bother? There is zero nutritional requirement to eat carbs, digestible or not. Zero. You can live a perfectly healthy and long life without eating another carb. Aside from the carbs, many folks - a lot more than you might imagine - have digestive and even serious health issues with some or all plant sourced foods.
Rebj
(Rebecca )
#5
I don’t eat vegetables every day but do eat them when I WANT them. That’s a big difference from eating them because I HAVE to! It’s usually one serving at the later meal.
PaulL
(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?)
#6
I’ve never actually confirmed this with Carl or Richard, but the story on the forums when I joined in 2017 was that they picked 20 g/day as a level of intake that would work for everyone but people with the worst metabolic damage.
Dr. Eric Westman’s obesity clinic gives patients a strict limit of 20 total grams of carbohydrate a day. Virta Health gives their patients a limit of 50 g/day total, in the hope, as Dr. Phinney stated at Ketofest, that they would end up at 20 g net.
For an interesting history of low-carb eating, going back to William Banting and his Letter on Corpulence, see the book Good Calories, Bad Calories, by Gary Taubes. The idea that sugar and grains caused the body to put on fat was not new even in Banting’s day (though it was news to Banting himself), but we forgot it after Ancel Keys convinced everyone that they were going to die of a heart attack if they ate arterycloggingsaturatedfat.
#NOTDEADYET
SomeGuy
(Joey)
#7
@Kroman Makes sense to understand how your BHB ketones behave. But the only caution I’d add when it comes to measuring ketones is that, if all goes well, once your mitochondria are fully adapted, your body will begin to produce no more ketones than the amount actually needed.
And that will most likely be far less than you’ll initially measure.
This does NOT mean that you are somehow failing at low-carb, or are not producing enough ketones. It means your body is “sparing” excess production (and in the case of pee sticks, you’re no longer seeing it get excreted in your urine).
If you’re not eating carbs for any meaningful stretch of time … you ARE in ketosis. Full stop.
That’s when it’s not worth measuring ketones any longer. Or keeping spreadsheets with gross vs. net carb counts.
Juanita_Rice
(Juanita Rice)
#8
The book, Dr Atkins New Diet Revolution 1992 edition under “The Rules of the Induction Diet”, it states " Your diet must contain no more than 20 grams of carbohydrate a day. For most people, induction of ketosis/lipolysis can be achieved on this intake". Maybe this is one of the sources the " 20 grams" number came from.
PaulL
(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?)
#9
Yes, Dr. Stephen Phinney, one of the authors, was suggesting 20 g/day long before he collaborated on that edition, and Dr. Westman has been advocating 20 g/day since he worked with Dr. Atkins. I’m sure Carl and Richard had that in mind when they started these forums.
Janie
(Jane)
#11
No, never counted non-starchy veggies. I also didn’t count onions, garlic or tomatoes even though they aren’t considered “non-starchy” as the amount I ate of these wasn’t significant.