Continued fat loss while stalled

(Tom) #1

I started my ketogenic way of eating at the end of March, 2022. My regimen includes emphasis on consuming lots of eggs, chicken, and fish. I incorporate spinach, berries, and heavy cream into my diet as well. That is not a comprehensive list of foods a consume but it could be called my consumption baseline. I’ve had no problem turning ketostix pink during this time. Over the last month I’ve hit a plateau being unable to move the needle on my scale, but the ketostix show continued ketosis.

So the question I have is: do you folks think that even during a stall that the body keeps reshaping and losing fat, or is this idea a myth? Also I’m wondering if people have been able to break a stall by simply sticking with what has worked, or has it been necessary to modify your program?

#2

You can definitely be losing fat but also gaining lean mass, meaning that the scales aren’t showing you what’s really going on. It’s one of the many reasons I don’t weigh.

I personally lost 6 inches off my waistline, gained some muscle definition, and am highly doubtful that I lost a ton of actual weight during that time ; )

(Robin) #3

Short answer… YES! The scale can indicate a stall or even a gin, while you tighten your belt and watch your body reshape itself into a slimmer you. It’s crazy. But true.

#4

Yes, it’s easily possible to lose fat while not losing weight, that’s why it’s a common advice that focus on measurements or just pants, not the scale.

The need to tweak something… It depends. If you “stall” since weeks, it’s nothing, you may lose fat or you may not currently but you may do it again later without tweaking anything, it happens a lot to people, some shorter stall just happen out of the blue but it goes away. But longer term, I would think some change is in order.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #5

Well, it happened to me, so I’d say it’s not a myth.

Though, actually, I wouldn’t call that a stall, either. It was fat I wanted to lose; gaining lean mass was just a nice gift of keto.

#6

Yes, I lost a lot of weight in my first seven months on keto. I only lost one size during that period. I’ve been stalled for almost two months, not gaining or losing one pound, yet I’ve lost a full size and I think I’m still losing size. In addition while my glucose blood levels were meandering down, in the time since I’ve stopped losing weight the decline has accelerated.

I guess I’m hoping my body is coping and processing the weight loss and the plateau will not last forever. I still need to lose quite a bit.

(Tom) #7

Thanks everyone. My stall is closing in on week 4 but the measuring tap around my belly seems to be tightening…just wasn’t sure if I was just seeing something because I wanted to see it. I’m not going to change my diet because I’m still seeing ketosis indicated on the ketostix and I’m not feeling deprived. What I can do is up my exercise game including bicycling, swimming, and nordic walking.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #8

Exercise is not needed for losing fat. I am a couch potato of long standing, and still I lost 36 kg/80 lbs. in my first several months. Not to mention the couple of inches (about 5 cm) I lost over the following twelve months, while my weight remained stable.

People can get overly fixated on the number on the scale. But the question to ask is this: would you rather look 30 pounds lighter and stay the same weight, or lose 30 pounds and still look the same?

#9

Exercise is needed for some people to losing fat or not gaining.
I am sure I need it now (I didn’t when I was heavy, 170lbs… but I need to be waaay lower to be slim) as my energy need is way too low without it but I don’t exercise primarily due to that (I don’t lose fat either way so I would have stopped ages ago). Exercise is good for many things and I can’t function with it being too low.
While many people get hungrier and experience it’s good to do less exercise… Each to their own.
And of course, it’s usually almost all about the diet, the tiny thing the average people do as exercise can be balanced out with just a few bites…

#10

Body weight on the scale, and body composition aren’t linked, I’m currently around 225lbs right now with around 10%BF, I’ve also been 225lbs with by bodyfat in the high 20’s years ago. That’s why it’s important to measure. Body recomp is real, the scales good for watching trends, but it’s only a part of the story. The ketostix don’t tell you anything usefull in most cases, in this one, I would take that as a piece of information though, you’re in Ketosis, but you’re not losing anymore. Sounds like you’re eating too much for your metabolism.

Arguably, “worked” would be the key word. If it were still working, you wouldn’t be stalled. More than a week or two doing that pretty much seals the deal that it’s no longer working. You can’t expect perfect every week, but something!

Are you tracking your intake? Working out?

(Tom) #11

I’m bicycling or walking 3 to 4 times per week. I wouldn’t equate that exercise regimen with strenuously working out, but from what I’ve read moderate exercise can be just as good or better than heavily working out in the gym…something about cortisol. I’m closing in on my 70th birthday so strenuous workouts really aren’t in the cards for me anyway.

I suspect minimal returns on rigorous tracking of carbs, calories, and macros and that procedure seems a tad obsessive so I’ll do it only if all else fails. What I do suspect is that my level of consumption of heavy cream has become limiting so I’m looking to cutting back on that.

#12

Correct, Low intensity steady state cardio (LISS) can and is just as effective for most people. As you said though, when you (always) do it, it’s still great, but kinda becomes not exercise but just your normal activity. Still awesome and shouldn’t be pulled for sure. I wouldn’t fall into that trap of being worried about Cortisol, I know that’s a popular thing to do and blame everything on when it comes to keto’rs. Know what else Cortisol does? Gives you great energy, makes you feel happy and amazing! Wakes you up in the morning, Makes you alert, makes you make split second decisions easier, improves hand to eye coordination. See where I’m going with this? Cortisol is much more your friend than it is your enemy, when it’s chronically high for no reason, ya, that’s not good either. But there’s a good spot for everything.

Same goes with Insulin, people completely obsess about a hormone they can’t even check without a lab, ok, it can stick fat in cells, great, it also delivers nutrients and all the good stuff to them as well which is why in bodybuilding even those managing sugar and carbs during a cut still want post workout carbs to drive in all the nutrition post workout. Same deal, it’s all about the context.

I wouldn’t recommend starting up with CrossFit or anything (wouldn’t to a 30yo either!) but screw that, age is a number! Our biological age is far more important than our chronological age. You sure as hell don’t look 70 dude! I’d argue that you shouldn’t either! We’re so accustomed to people giving up at young ages and wasting away that we now have these (incorrect) mental ideas of what a 40-50-60-70yo person should look and act like. NOT THIS GUY!

I love the saying and sadly forget who said it, “I’m going to dye young, at a very old age”.

Stuff like that will add up very quickly, even a couple tbsp in a large drink can throw 200+ cals on your day like it’s nothing. I switched to light cream a long time ago, not a huge difference, but that 20 cals saved per tbsp, over the course of half a dozen iced coffees a day in my case adds up really fast. I capped my fat at around 80g, If I go over I go over, but try to replace that with protein.

Your call, but without it you’re left guessing everytime something doesn’t work. Use an app and it becomes second nature and literally take a minute before meals. Tracking is what undid over a year of hell for me, allowed me to fix my metabolism, and recomp at a pretty crazy level. Last time I was 225lbs I my bodyfat was in the high 20’s-low 30’s, now I’m 225 at around 10%. I didn’t do that as a true recomp, I lost a lot then put the muscle back on, but tracking and watching everything was the only way I was able to do that without getting fat again. It’s also how I learned that I had to watch fat and salt intake, keto wasn’t saving me from that. Salt in higher amounts turns me into a water balloon, and when my fat starts passing 100g, I won’t lose bodyfat no matter what else is dialed in perfect. Gotta have numbers to work with to figure things out!

(Tom) #13

I appreciate all the great input and knowledge you’ve shared. What tracking app would you recommend?

#14

Cronometer is really good. Well, I like it : )

(Allie) #15

Just ditch the scale and use a tape measure, the scale is an awful guide and screws people up massively. Tape measure will show where changes are happening.

I’ve gained 6lbs on the scale, waist measurement is still the same.

#16

So typically my go to recommendation for years has been Cronometer, it tracks literally everything, has a nice interface, a nice web interface as well. It also tracks a lot of other things that tweakers and biohackers like to track, the premium version also lets you do custom trends charts so you can correlate pretty much anything, to anything else. It’s how I linked my lowered fat intake to better fat loss even with the same calories, and also my raised protein intake with me being better satiated so I’d eat less overall. I’d still say you can’t go wrong with it at all!

BUT, with that said, I’ve been cheating on it for about a month now with MacroFactor, which has been out for about a year now, and while it’s not the biohackers dream that Cronometer is, it’s pretty damn impressive. It’s made by the people at Stronger by Science. The big difference with that one is it’s an AI run tracker that (can) act as a macro coach that changes your macros dynamically based on your results. So you tell it your goals like most macro calcs, Lose Fat, Gain Weight, Maintain etc, you tell it your eating preference, High Carb, Low Carb, Keto etc. Once you approve it’s macros which you can tweak at first. Based on your daily check-ins, your macros will adjust weekly to keep you on your goal, for the timeframe you’ve selected. So if the idea of not having to figure out anything, not having to re-calcuate and automatically being kept on schedule for a goal, it’s pretty cool, if you start working out less, and it changes your results / goal completion date, it’ll pick up on that and adjust accordingly.

The downside: It’s a premium only app. But so far for me at least, seems to be worth it.

Macrofactor has a video on their page giving on overview of what it does.