Confusion between whole wheat and wheat bran

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(MooBoom) #21

Albert welcome. If you find that additional fibre is beneficial for you, that’s great. We are very supportive of n=1 on the forum, as people are complex biological organisms and there’s a high degree of variability between what works/doesn’t work between individuals.

Just as fibre works well for you, through trial and error a lot of people on a keto journey have found the opposite. For some the answer is proper electrolyte balance, adequate hydration, exercise, caffeine- learning to differentiate between constipation and less waste owing to improved nutrient dense food intake.

It’s interesting to learn about what works well for others- minus dogma in either direction. The longer people eat ketogenically, the less important fibre seems to be.

(John) #22

Yes, in the first couple of months I had occasional diarrhea and occasional constipation, as my gut biome and digestive tract had to readjust to different foods in different quantities. Nothing extreme, but I do remember it.

I used Smooth Move tea and some stool softener pills there for a while. Probably by about 8 to 12 weeks in, things got more regular. Less frequent, because this is a lower residue diet, so maybe only 2 to 4 times a week, but stool quantities were medium to low (compared to before keto), consistency became comfortably soft but firm.

I do pretty strict as far as food choices go (Westman Page 4 mostly) but I try to get plenty of leafy greens and other low-carb veggies in. Some people go ultra-low carb or even carnivore, but not me. I try to shade the keto diet towards the Mediterranean spectrum - just no grains, beans, or fruits. Lots of salads, broccoli, cauliflower, brussels sprouts, squash, bell peppers, spinach, berries, tomatoes, olives, pickles, avocados.

I just had a lovely poop, in fact. Should have taken pictures for this thread. :slight_smile:

(Running from stupidity) #23

It will fit the intent and theme of this thread perfectly…

(MooBoom) #24

Thank you for not :joy::see_no_evil::poop:

(Albert R Messner) #25

I agree Madeleine, we’re all different and at different stages of our keto journey. At present, I do feel the need to use additional fiber, and wheat bran (due to its low carb count), seems a good addition to seeds and psyllium. As I mentioned to John, it may well be that when I’m keto-adapted, I may no longer have any recurrences of constipation. But, I’m not there yet. I’m basing my belief that fiber is necessary, at least at this stage in my keto journey, on my own personal experience. I guess it bothered me when I hear absolutist claims about fiber being unnecessary on a ketogenic diet, period–without considering the stage one is in and one’s personal experiences.

#26

Ya, I used to say the same thing, until I spent almost a year crapping blood and having to go on medication and get a colonoscopy to get to the end of it, the Doc told me up my fiber, I did and haven’t had an issue since. No amount of fat and MCTs fixed it, fiber did. We’re not all the same, and many of us DO need fiber to run right.

(MooBoom) #27

Fair point. Fibre does seem more necessary early on, as @JohnH pointed out our microbiomes take a while to adjust.

(Albert R Messner) #28

Thanks for that lovely information and images it created in my mind,:smiley:

(Carl Keller) #29

Certainly our ancestors living near the equator had access to seasonal fruits and vegetables and this would have been a source of some fiber but those living in northern climates rarely had access to fiber. Their primary source of food was protein and fat and very little fiber was available for most of the year. In general, our ancestors were attracted to animals for sustenance because it was most practical to spend our effort hunting and eating foods that were the most nutrient dense. There is literally no nutrients in fiber.

It wasn’t until the advent of farming, around 12,000 BC, that fiber and carbohydrates started having a steady presence in human diet.

The intent is to show that adding something to a byway that is jammed up isn’t going to help unjam it. It’s the logic in this analogy that I was trying to point out.

(Albert R Messner) #30

Well said MooBoom
I would just add what I said to Madeleine:

(John) #31

I am in the “I eat fiber” camp. I have lost almost 100 pounds so it doesn’t seem to be hurting me in achieving my goals. I would not be averse to sprinkling wheat bran on food if I wanted some more, but I’d rather get it from salads.

I do mix things up, though. Some days are low or no carbs, some days are higher carbs. Not pasta or bread - lots of veggies.

Today was a high fiber / high carb day. Breakast was strawberries and walnuts with full-fat yogurt. Lunch was a gorgeous Cobb salad made with romaine, kale, tomatoes, bacon, eggs, blue cheese, grilled shrimp, and a side of broccoli. Dinner was a turkey and cheddar lettuce wrap sandwich with a portion of raw pumpkin seeds as side, and a couple of squares of 100% cocoa dark chocolate for dessert. That was a LOT of fiber.

Yesterday, though, was bacon and eggs for breakfast, can of sardines for lunch, and three baked chicken thighs for dinner. Hardly a carb to be found. Like I said, I mix it up.

#32

That’s the best kind of experience!

I think that folks who specialize in the gut biome say that it’s an incredibly important area for the study of human health and we basically understand almost nothing about it at this point. There are some things we do know - that the biome adjusts to what we eat but it also shifts based on sleep, stress, sunlight exposure, hormonal changes - but it’s a complex world in there and scientists are barely scratching the surface, so there’s not much point in waiting for some final word from authority. We do our research, keep an open mind, experiment, find what works for each of us - I think that’s about the best we can do. N=1 for the win :slight_smile:

(Running from stupidity) #33

Yes, for n=1. NOT for marching into a forum on the first day and declaring things as definitive, and everyone else to be wrong.

(Bunny) #34

I like that analogy, that just demonstrates to me that people simply eat too much no matter what diet they are on.

Fiber is ok for me I just don’t want it from grains (kills you faster) because I might as well eat shards of broken glass or drink liquid fiber glass, literally that’s what it’s doing when it’s bouncing off the walls of your intestinal tract destroying the microvilli!

Food moves or is propelled at great speeds through the digestive tract by peristalsis muscles that surround the intestinal tract that contract as you digest, that’s what I mean by insoluble things bouncing off the intestinal walls.

#35

I realized that my “constipation” (I added “” because I didnt really feel consipated like I did on SAD, but I went #2 once a week and it was pretty hard and goat-like) was due to cheese, not the amount of fiber, and since I stopped eating cheese, I go once a day and it is a much more pleasurable experience than before.

(Chris) #36

How dogmatic of you!

(Jane- Old Inky Crone) #37

I’ll throw my N=1 in here: prior to Keto I had terrible IBS and reflux for most of my life. Doctors always said “eat more fiber” and I did, and it got worse and worse. My belly was always bloated like I was 6 months pregnant. Since Keto I have almost quit eating anything with fiber (broccoli or Brussels sprouts 1-2 times a week) and my IBS and reflux are gone. I have a regular BM (albeit small in volume) daily. First time in my memory that I’ve had normal stools, not diarrhea or rocks! I’m very happy to eschew fiber in all forms to have a properly functioning body! Oh, and I’ve lost 10 inches around my waist from losing the bloat! As I said this is MY N=1.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #38

That’s how it works for me, too. I’m never constipated these days, unless I forgot to keep my salt up.

ETA: My definition of “regular” has changed, however, since going keto caused the pattern of elimination to shift. But then, having been raised by a nurse, I was never taken in by the laxative advertising that defined “regular” as a bowel movement at the same time every day. Mom was a big fan of letting the body do what it wanted. She made it clear to us that every body has its own natural pattern of elimination.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #39

I’m sure you can become keto-adapted. The only question is why eat bran at all? As most people have posted in this thread, we have found fiber to be unnecessary. Some members of these forums have even found it detrimental, once they went ketogenic.

But that’s no reason for you not to have bran in your diet, if you want it. The fact that carbohydrate is completely unnecessary in the human diet doesn’t stop me from enjoying my vegetables and salad.

(Albert R Messner) #40

Instead of making a lot of assumptions about what you assume I don’t already know and what you apparently think you do know, it might have behooved you to ask me what I’m already doing on my ketogenic diet to deal with problems like constipation. Your advice is both arrogant and useless. Because so many in your forum are just like you, I have no interest in carrying on any kind of dialogue with you. I’m still hoping there are some people on a ketogenic diet who are actually reasonable and thoughtful. There were a few who are , at least tolerant (but not necessarily open to new ideas), but they’re in the minority. I’m still looking…