Confusion between whole wheat and wheat bran

[juice]

I just had a lovely poop, in fact. Should have taken pictures for this thread.

It will fit the intent and theme of this thread perfectly…

[MooBoom]

I just had a lovely poop, in fact. Should have taken pictures for this thread.

Thank you for not

[almessner]

I agree Madeleine, we’re all different and at different stages of our keto journey. At present, I do feel the need to use additional fiber, and wheat bran (due to its low carb count), seems a good addition to seeds and psyllium. As I mentioned to John, it may well be that when I’m keto-adapted, I may no longer have any recurrences of constipation. But, I’m not there yet. I’m basing my belief that fiber is necessary, at least at this stage in my keto journey, on my own personal experience. I guess it bothered me when I hear absolutist claims about fiber being unnecessary on a ketogenic diet, period–without considering the stage one is in and one’s personal experiences.

[lfod14]

Ya, I used to say the same thing, until I spent almost a year crapping blood and having to go on medication and get a colonoscopy to get to the end of it, the Doc told me up my fiber, I did and haven’t had an issue since. No amount of fat and MCTs fixed it, fiber did. We’re not all the same, and many of us DO need fiber to run right.

[MooBoom]

I guess it bothered me when I hear absolutist claims about fiber being unnecessary on a ketogenic diet, period–without considering the stage one is in and one’s personal experiences.

Fair point. Fibre does seem more necessary early on, as @JohnH pointed out our microbiomes take a while to adjust.

[almessner]

I just had a lovely poop, in fact. Should have taken pictures for this thread.

Thanks for that lovely information and images it created in my mind,

[CarlKeller]

My guess (and it’s only a guess) is that they were able to obtain more fiber naturally. How? I don’t know.

Certainly our ancestors living near the equator had access to seasonal fruits and vegetables and this would have been a source of some fiber but those living in northern climates rarely had access to fiber. Their primary source of food was protein and fat and very little fiber was available for most of the year. In general, our ancestors were attracted to animals for sustenance because it was most practical to spend our effort hunting and eating foods that were the most nutrient dense. There is literally no nutrients in fiber.

It wasn’t until the advent of farming, around 12,000 BC, that fiber and carbohydrates started having a steady presence in human diet.

As to comparing the role of fiber in constipation to the role of cars in a traffic jams: is this supposed to be a good argument? Obviously, it’s not, it’s just an analogy.

The intent is to show that adding something to a byway that is jammed up isn’t going to help unjam it. It’s the logic in this analogy that I was trying to point out.

[almessner]

Albert welcome. If you find that additional fibre is beneficial for you, that’s great. We are very supportive of n=1 on the forum, as people are complex biological organisms and there’s a high degree of variability between what works/doesn’t work between individuals.

Well said MooBoom
I would just add what I said to Madeleine:

I’m basing my belief that fiber is necessary, at least at this stage in my keto journey, on my own personal experience.

[JohnH]

I am in the “I eat fiber” camp. I have lost almost 100 pounds so it doesn’t seem to be hurting me in achieving my goals. I would not be averse to sprinkling wheat bran on food if I wanted some more, but I’d rather get it from salads.

I do mix things up, though. Some days are low or no carbs, some days are higher carbs. Not pasta or bread - lots of veggies.

Today was a high fiber / high carb day. Breakast was strawberries and walnuts with full-fat yogurt. Lunch was a gorgeous Cobb salad made with romaine, kale, tomatoes, bacon, eggs, blue cheese, grilled shrimp, and a side of broccoli. Dinner was a turkey and cheddar lettuce wrap sandwich with a portion of raw pumpkin seeds as side, and a couple of squares of 100% cocoa dark chocolate for dessert. That was a LOT of fiber.

Yesterday, though, was bacon and eggs for breakfast, can of sardines for lunch, and three baked chicken thighs for dinner. Hardly a carb to be found. Like I said, I mix it up.

[Madeleine]

But, I’m not there yet. I’m basing my belief that fiber is necessary, at least at this stage in my keto journey, on my own personal experience.

That’s the best kind of experience!

I think that folks who specialize in the gut biome say that it’s an incredibly important area for the study of human health and we basically understand almost nothing about it at this point. There are some things we do know - that the biome adjusts to what we eat but it also shifts based on sleep, stress, sunlight exposure, hormonal changes - but it’s a complex world in there and scientists are barely scratching the surface, so there’s not much point in waiting for some final word from authority. We do our research, keep an open mind, experiment, find what works for each of us - I think that’s about the best we can do. N=1 for the win

[juice]

That’s the best kind of experience!

Yes, for n=1. NOT for marching into a forum on the first day and declaring things as definitive, and everyone else to be wrong.

[atomicspacebunny]

The role of dietary fiber in constipation is analogous to cars in traffic congestion. The only way to alleviate slow traffic would be to decrease the number of cars and to evacuate the remaining cars quickly. Should we add more cars, the congestion would only be worsened.

I like that analogy, that just demonstrates to me that people simply eat too much no matter what diet they are on.

Fiber is ok for me I just don’t want it from grains (kills you faster) because I might as well eat shards of broken glass or drink liquid fiber glass, literally that’s what it’s doing when it’s bouncing off the walls of your intestinal tract destroying the microvilli!

Food moves or is propelled at great speeds through the digestive tract by peristalsis muscles that surround the intestinal tract that contract as you digest, that’s what I mean by insoluble things bouncing off the intestinal walls.

[Meerkatsandy]

I realized that my “constipation” (I added “” because I didnt really feel consipated like I did on SAD, but I went #2 once a week and it was pretty hard and goat-like) was due to cheese, not the amount of fiber, and since I stopped eating cheese, I go once a day and it is a much more pleasurable experience than before.

[Dread1840]

How dogmatic of you!

[JaneyMae]

I’ll throw my N=1 in here: prior to Keto I had terrible IBS and reflux for most of my life. Doctors always said “eat more fiber” and I did, and it got worse and worse. My belly was always bloated like I was 6 months pregnant. Since Keto I have almost quit eating anything with fiber (broccoli or Brussels sprouts 1-2 times a week) and my IBS and reflux are gone. I have a regular BM (albeit small in volume) daily. First time in my memory that I’ve had normal stools, not diarrhea or rocks! I’m very happy to eschew fiber in all forms to have a properly functioning body! Oh, and I’ve lost 10 inches around my waist from losing the bloat! As I said this is MY N=1.

[PaulL]

I attribute that to inadequate salt and hydration the previous day.

That’s how it works for me, too. I’m never constipated these days, unless I forgot to keep my salt up.

ETA: My definition of “regular” has changed, however, since going keto caused the pattern of elimination to shift. But then, having been raised by a nurse, I was never taken in by the laxative advertising that defined “regular” as a bowel movement at the same time every day. Mom was a big fan of letting the body do what it wanted. She made it clear to us that every body has its own natural pattern of elimination.

[PaulL]

The question of whether or not I’ll become keto-adapted, using some bran,

I’m sure you can become keto-adapted. The only question is why eat bran at all? As most people have posted in this thread, we have found fiber to be unnecessary. Some members of these forums have even found it detrimental, once they went ketogenic.

But that’s no reason for you not to have bran in your diet, if you want it. The fact that carbohydrate is completely unnecessary in the human diet doesn’t stop me from enjoying my vegetables and salad.

[almessner]

Instead of making a lot of assumptions about what you assume I don’t already know and what you apparently think you do know, it might have behooved you to ask me what I’m already doing on my ketogenic diet to deal with problems like constipation. Your advice is both arrogant and useless. Because so many in your forum are just like you, I have no interest in carrying on any kind of dialogue with you. I’m still hoping there are some people on a ketogenic diet who are actually reasonable and thoughtful. There were a few who are , at least tolerant (but not necessarily open to new ideas), but they’re in the minority. I’m still looking…

[FishChris]

I honestly doubt anyone here has had more or worse constipation that I have in the last 30 years ! Ya’ see, along with my Fibromyalgia, I had severe Irritable Bowel Syndrome. Which wrecked my digestion, and left my stomach in a constant battle between constipation and diarea every day of my life for litterally decades !
During my fitness flip from 2009-2014, my stomach actually worked like a normal person !
That was unbelievable ! But after my back injury, I slowly started to eat like crap, put on a bunch of weight, activity level went way down, and guess what ? My stomach started screwing up again
For the first 3 weeks of my going Keto, constipation was one of my only issues. I had totally stocked up on Metamucil, thinking I might have to use it on a regular basis… But for the last couple weeks, my stomach is really starting to become more regular once again.
Oh, I did start taking magnesium citrate as well, which also supposedly helps with body regulation… But not sure how much, if anything that is helping. For me, it feels like anytime I get a good workout in, the next morning I’m “good to go”

As for bran or wheat germ or whatever part of it… I say, 1) if it helps you, and 2) if you can take it, and keep your carbs below 20 a day, go for it. I’m glad I’m finally getting back to being more regular without any dietary aids.

[atomicspacebunny]

Instead of making a lot of assumptions about what you assume I don’t already know and what you apparently think you do know, it might have behooved you to ask me what I’m already doing on my ketogenic diet to deal with problems like constipation. Your advice is both arrogant and useless. Because so many in your forum are just like you, I have no interest in carrying on any kind of dialogue with you. I’m still hoping there are some people on a ketogenic diet who are actually reasonable and thoughtful. There were a few who are, at least tolerant (but not necessarily open to new ideas), but they’re in the minority. I’m still looking…

…I’m looking too:

“…In turn, doctors recommend fiber for constipation because that is what is written up in all medical references and textbooks, even though every single piece of independent research states emphatically:

— Fiber causes constipation and related colorectal disorders.

— Fiber doesn‘t relieve constipation or improves motility.

— Fiber is squarely behind colorectal cancer.

In essence, by replacing the dead bacteria in stools, dietary fiber has been covering up the complicity of most drugs in constipation and bowel disorders, even though it is against the law to even mention fiber in connection to constipation.

Obviously, I haven‘t made that law – the Food and Drugs Administration did, and any doctor or nutritionist who recommends fiber for regularity or constipation relief, violates that law and commits professional malpractice. …” …More

Hmmmmm?

Supporting References:

[1] Exploding the Fiber Myth: What You Might Not Know That Could Be Hurting You: Do you know those people who have those very distended, swollen, basketball-looking bellies? One of the main causes of this kind of big belly is not always necessarily fat. In fact, it could merely be bloating in the intestines because they’re consuming too much fiber. This fiber myth has been around 30 years now—this myth that the more fiber you eat, the more you will decrease your likelihood of developing colon cancer. This is a myth because eating too much fiber might actually increase your risk of developing colon cancer. When you are constipated, sometimes the doctor will tell you to eat more fiber or to take Metamucil or other synthetic forms of fiber, and you might experience some relief in constipation, but that is because of the negative things this extra fiber is doing to your colon, not the positives. See, what all this fiber really does is irritate and stimulate the colon, making it dump waste faster. Fiber isn’t even necessarily forming the bulk of your stool. …More

[2] Daily bread – Can any human body handle gluten? | Dr. Rodney Ford |

[3] “…Studies from Harvard³ show that wheat creates leaky gut in everyone as a protein called gliadin, found in wheat and gluten, increases another protein, zonulin. Zonulin weakens the tight junctions of the gut lining and BBB thereby contributing to leaky gut and leaky brain. …” …More

[4] Research Review Shows That Gluten Causes Leaky Gut

[5] Fiber and Colon Health On A Well-Formulated Ketogenic Diet: New Insights Question Its Role As An Unconditional Requirement

[6] How do I fix constipation on a ketogenic diet? By Dr. Stephen Phinney and the Virta Team “…Many people assume that constipation while following a well-formulated ketogenic diet is due to inadequate fiber. However, it is often caused by the combination of too little sodium and inadequate fluid intake (dehydration). In this case, a simple fix is to add 2 cups of broth or bouillon daily along with adequate fluids rather than a fiber supplement. With sustained nutritional ketosis, many people even report improvement in symptoms like gas, and bloating, and improvement with symptoms of irritable bowel syndrome. …” …More