Confused about Ketosis

(Anita Morrell Thayer) #1

Hi there. I just started KETO a week and a half ago after doing some reading up on it. I love the idea and have jumped in with both feet. I made it my goal to get into ketosis and did a fast with Keto coffee in the morning. I then noticed articles that said that moderate ketosis is the best for weight loss while others said maximum ketosis is the best. Can anyone give me some clarity on this?

#2

See if this helps

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(Not needed) #3

I think you are worrying about the minutiae and should just get into ketosis. Once you are there, play around with the numbers and strike a balance that works for you. No one can give you a definite answer, and as long as you are losing lbs and feeling good, the details donā€™t matter.

(Raj Seth) #4

Nutritional ketosis is a state where your body is actively burning fat, lipolysis, and creating free fatty acids with ketones as a byproduct. If you feed the body enough carbs, the body makes insulin to process the glucose. (Fats do not elicit much of an insulin response, while proteins elicit about 50% compared to carbs a important later). Insulin halts lipolysis. Like dead in its tracks - goodbye ketosis. The quantity of carbs that will elicit enough insulin varies individually. 20gm daily is generally accepted as small enough that lipolysis (&ketosus) is going to happen for sure

So, once you are in lipolysis, all is good. At first, your body is not as efficient as it can be in producing and consuming fatty acids and ketones in he right amount and at the right pace. So ketones spill in the urine (ketostix), or are floating around in the bloodstream ($$ ketometers). After a little while, say 2-8 weeks (longer sometimes), your body gets better at it and you reach Keto Nirvana - the state of being fat adapted. Your ketostix may show little to no ketones and blood ketone levels may decrease.

Now the heavy lifting can start in earnest. Body can burn body fat or ingested fat with equal facility. As your insulin levels remain persistently low (no carbs, moderate protein maximal fat) the body lowers its set point and will burn excess body fat with reckless abandon. If you do some fasting, you can turbocharge this lipolysis to 1/2-3/4 lb a day of fat loss.

So the level of ketosis - it doesnā€™t parse in my understanding of the matter. You either are in lipolysis or youā€™re not.

(Empress of the Unexpected) #5

Alas, 15 carbs a day, no ketosis after 30 days, whats up with that? More fat?

(Raj Seth) #6

How do you judge no ketosis?
No changes in anything? Weight, measurements, mental state, hunger?
But sure ketosis - go zero carb :+1:

(Anita Morrell Thayer) #7

Thank you miketo for your response. Iā€™m using ketostix, not blood test at this time. Is is possible to be in too much ketosis? Ie, the right side of this graph? And are these numbers on the graph blood numbers or urine numbers? Sorry for the newbiness :joy:

(Anita Morrell Thayer) #8

@Regina I jumpstarted my ketosis by consuming a Keto Coffee in the morning and fasting the rest of the day until about 6:00 pm. I was hungry, but determined. That seems to have tipped me over the edge so to speak. Good luck!:four_leaf_clover:

(Mark Rhodes) #9

they are blood, beta-hydroxybutrate. Most of the research has been done on blood readings. There are three different types of ketones. The one in the urine is waste. The strips will decrease over time as you use them and they stop being wasted.

I would read through this forum for a really good understanding. Just spend time reading and listening to the podcasts. If you start at the beginning you will learn as Carl and Richard did and the rest of us.

Good Luck.

(Mark Rhodes) #10

I should add that the citation for the graph is a great resource as well. Both Phinney and Volek books helped me understand to a great degree what I needed to do. This site clarified my understanding to the point of being able to apply my knowledge to specifics to individualize both mine and my wifeā€™s nutrition plans.

(Todd Allen) #11

Yes, type 1 diabetics can hit very high/damaging ketone levels if their insulin level drops too low. For most people though high ketone levels will produce a little insulin response which inhibits lipolysis and prevents run away ketone levels.

(Todd) #12

My daughter is a nurse and lectured me on being keto. She thought it was just bad judgement. In January she had her last baby. 2 months of dieting and no luck loosing weight. She finally asked for some advice. I sent her 2ketodudes podcasts and gave her the basic info; Give her scale to someone she doesnā€™t like. Eat leafy green vegetables, protein, fat, bacon and butter.

10 weeks later I get a photo and a text saying she stepped on a scale. 50 pounds gone and feeling wonderful.

All that to say this, ā€œKeep calm and keto on.ā€ Find what works for you. Measure or donā€™t measure anything. Itā€™s up to you.

(Anita Morrell Thayer) #13

Thank you @brownfat. Now my next question and maybe Iā€™ll leave yā€™all alonešŸ˜œ
How do I drop my ketone levels? Increase fat or protein? I have the carb manager app on my phone and most days I have been way below estimated fat and protein level. Thoughts?

(Todd Allen) #14

Fat tends to be neutral with respect to ketone level other than MCT oil which can boost it as metabolism of MCTs isnā€™t inhibited by insulin.

There is a significant insulin response to protein which typically keeps ketones from rising into the higher range one sees with fasting or near fasting. If you arenā€™t eating much it is normal to have a higher blood ketone level say 4.0-8.0.

If you arenā€™t eating much because you have little hunger thatā€™s great. It means you are burning body fat and donā€™t have much need for added energy from food. On the other hand, if you are forcing a near fast while genuinely hungry then your body is still struggling to produce sufficient energy from body fat and you should eat more - protein to your target and as much fat as you need to keep hunger in check between meals.

(Anita Morrell Thayer) #15

Thank youšŸ¤— @brownfat!!

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #16

Dr. Phinney defines nutritional ketosis as a serum level of beta-hydroxybutyrate of 0.5 mmol/dL or greater. (Diabetic ketoacidosis starts at 10.0, by the way.) More is not better; it just means that you have more BOHB in your bloodstream that hasnā€™t been used by your cells yet. As you become fat-adapted, your ketone level will most likely drop, not rise, since your body will be using the ketone bodies it is producing, not wasting them.