Conflicting Messages from Diet Doctor?


(Pascal Menezes) #1

I love the Diet Doctor site. However, recently, I have been watching/listening to videos and podcasts coming from Diet Doctor that are now promoting the importance of Proteins over Fats. I have always believed that, for us, who are not into heavy physical activity, we should be eating moderate amount of protein. So High Fats, Moderate protein, and very low carbohydrates. Any clarification from anyone here?


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #2

I think concern about ‘too much protein’ is overblown, based on misunderstanding protein metabolism in a very low carb environment. As long as carbs are kept sub-20 grams per day and sufficient fat consumed to meet daily energy requirements, I think the amount of protein consumed is a non-issue. Protein consumption is also self-regulating to large extent. Keto is defined as ‘lo/no carb’, not hi fat. You end up eating substantial amounts of fat only because you need to get energy from somewhere and if it’s no longer carbs then it’s going to be mostly fat. But different folks demonstrate quite a wide range of fat:protein ratios that seem to work well enough.

I think the following should be required reading:


#3

I see keto as simply “Minimal carbs. Adequate proteins. Fats as needed (for satiety).”

First, determine your macros, keeping in mind that the proteins macro is a lower limit, while the fats and carbs macros are upper limits.

So, two priorities:

  • You need to keep carbs low to stay in ketosis.
  • You need to make sure you get enough proteins. Your body needs them. Being significantly low on them over an extended period can cause the body to get it elsewhere. That may mean break-down of muscle tissue. Not good.

After that, ideally, it should be hunger that determines how many fats and additional proteins (and thus calories) that you need to be eating, if only because leaving yourself hungry all the time means keto won’t be sustainable. You don’t need to eat all of the fats macro if you’re not hungry, because the body can make up the difference with stored body fat.


#4

This. It’s hard to binge on steak because at some point your body says enough already, but it’s pretty easy to pop a lot of fat bombs, and whoops, you’re well over your energy needs.

It’s the “low carb” bit which is more important than the “high fat” bit. Lots of people seem to view keto as an EAT MOAR FAT diet. But the fat you consume to meet your daily energy requirements can come from your own fat stores.

Diet Doctor seem to be nudging people towards considering greater nutrient density for the energy they consume. Andreas has done a number of videos and posts on DD to explain the reasoning behind their philosophy shift. It does work better for a lot of people, including me :slight_smile:


#5

Also, Ted Naiman’s website explains nutrient density and the protein:energy ratio concept pretty well:


#6

I watched a lecture from Dr. Sarah Hallberg where she explicitly mentions this is not a high meat diet because protein is anti ketogenic. I really like her stuff, but I’m not convinced that high protein is necessarily anti ketogenic. I can only infer she asserted that due to gluconeogenesis and protein raising insulin levels. However, from a lot of the research provided here I believe gluconeogenesis is demand driven, not supply driven. Moreover, in a state where insulin is low, protein increasing insulin is counterbalanced by glucagon. So, the ratio of insulin to glucagon matters and in a low insulin state, the ratio is good. Protein consumption with raised insulin levels, however, yields much more unfavorable ratios.


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #7

Dr. Stephen Phinney has always advised a moderate protein intake, in the range of 1.0-1.5 grams of protein per kilo of lean body mass per day. Other researchers, such as Prof. Benjamin Bikman, being concerned with the loss of protein and the loss of ability to assimilate protein as we age, counsel an intake closer to 2.0 g/kg. Still other researchers, on the assumption that activating mTOR is going to have a deleterious effect on our lifespan, counsel the bare minimum of protein intake, which averages 0.6 g/kg for the population as a whole, but with a fair degree of individual variability.

Dr. Ted Naiman, taking off from research done by David Raubenheimer and Stephen Simpson, focuses on what he calls the Protein:Energy ratio, on the hypothesis that protein intake is important enough that we will overeat calories if we don’t have a high enough percentage of protein in our diet. Raubenheimer and Simpson are convinced that all mammals have an instinct for getting the necessary amount of protein, which in the case of human beings, tends to average 15% of calories on a reasonably nutrient-dense diet. They have data to show that experimental animals given a diet deficient in protein will overeat in order to get enough, while those given a diet richer in protein will be satisfied with a lower number of calories.

What is known for sure is that everyone loses a certain irreducible amount of nitrogen every day, which must be replenished by dietary protein intake, and that the level of nitrogen loss varies considerably from individual to individual (as I mentioned, the population average is an amount equivalent to 0.6 g/kg). We also know that the body has no means of storing amino acids in anything like the quantities of glucose and fatty acids it can store, so eating too much protein will cause some of the amino acids to be excreted.

You will have to experiment to find out what level of protein intake works best for you.


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #8

This is according to research performed by Phinney and Volek. Dr. Phinney says essentially the same as Dr. Hallberg.