Hello, this is my first post here so I hope I don’t do it wrong. Anyway, the first time I ever did Keto was back in 2008/2009 and it was Dr. Ron Rosedale that influenced me. I loved the keto way but after a year or two of it I ended up with kidney stones… Its been a long time but I have ventured back into doing keto again here in 2023 and because of concerns with kidney stones I take potassium citrate and drink some lime/lemon juice in my water and stay hydrated drinking from 1 to 1.5 gallons of water a day. However, here I am 6 weeks into keto and I have been having severe kidney pains. I got me some of those keto sticks and every time I test I am as dark purple as the sticks go, and I remember doing this years ago even after a year of strict keto it would be as dark purple as the sticks go and never backs off. Anyway I know ketone bodies are acidic and that your body will break down bone calcium to neutralize the acid and keep blood ph levels correct, but then you piss out all that calcium and that is why I have the kidney pains and get the kidney stones. I thought maybe if I just eat a little bit of carbs, enough that I’m not dark purple on the verge of black, but more like just pink, that I wouldn’t be so acidic. So I ate like four handfuls of corn chips and a half a tub of hummus for lunch, and come dinner time I am still dark purple… I ignored it and went back to strict keto but the kidney pains kept coming on so a couple days later I decided to drink some fruit juice and eat a big ass brownie (this was in the evening). I pissed on the sticks first thing in the morning and I was still dark purple. So then I chugged a few cups of fruit juice, and mixed up a quart of water with potassium citrate, baking soda, and magnesium citrate and chugged it down, and now a few hours later I am light pink. WTF is going on here.
Concerned about kidney stones
I’m waiting for someone good to reply here, as I’m sure they will, but while we are waiting I seem to remember someone saying that low carb makes the stones shrink!
And this shrinkage lets them pass where previously they were stuck in place.
But sometimes I oversimplify or just plainly get it wrong lol
The first time I had the stones was after a couple years of being in keto and I had to have lithotripsy. I had a complete blockage of the left kidney and was told that it was not even functioning because it was blocked off so bad and the other side was barely functioning. I had several stones on both sides, but the bigger ones were 5/8" and 1/2" in diameter.
I wonder if people that don’t have problems with stones are the same people that no matter what they do, they never get very dark on those sticks. They probably don’t have as acidic of an environment as a by product of the keto diet… For me, I can go into ketosis eating a lot more carbs than one should be able to eat. So when I cut down to under 20 (or even less), and do intermittent fasting, and exercise, and take L-Carnitine, I think I become extremely acidic and since I am prone to stones that might be the problem. I should probably just consume enough carbs to stay where the sticks are showing slight to moderate ketones.
Perhaps it’s worth looking at what you ARE eating on keto. There are foods that are “keto” that are really high in oxalates. Spinach, Swiss chard, and beet greens are huge. Almond flour is high. And those are foods that are often used by those switching to keto, perhaps in too much abundance.
It’s not something I was paying attention to early in my keto journey and I really overdid on a lot of those things. And I also had my first kidney stone maybe a year or so into keto. I’ve since lightened way up on the veg and don’t really use any of the top three offenders anymore, rarely even use almond flour.
My own journey has changed such that I don’t bother much with keto treats or fat bombs or stuff like that. I just eat real food like meat, eggs, butter, stuff like that as the bulk of my diet. I’m not carnivore yet but do sometimes lean pretty heavily in that direction. I feel better that way than when I overdo on even what is considered keto veg. Others’ experiences may vary.
Might be worth exploring, just a suggestion.
Dude thanks for the comment… I really want to make this successful and I have wanted to since 2009 because my Dad died of diabetes complications and I have blood sugar problems now and eating this way got my blood sugar under control and blood pressure is better to although still not perfect…
I am a little worried about just eating nothing but meat and eggs though because it seems like there are a lot of good things about vegetables or even occasional fruits. Dr. Rosedale had/has been a big influence to me and he pushes a lot of vegetables and much less protein, and lots of fat. He talks about the dangers of mtor and keeping it low by keeping protein low etc But maybe that just don’t work for me and I need to greatly minimize vegetables and do more carnivore and just keep protein lower by simply not eating as much and keeping the fat content high and then help with kidney stones by drinking my lemon or lime juice and stuff.
I’m not sure how to get electrolytes right either honestly. I get super deydrated on keto and drink sometimes as much as two gallons but always over a gallon (I keep a gallon jug by my side all day), but I still feel thirsty and my keto sticks are always really dark which some people say happens when dehydrated. So maybe I’m not getting enough salt. I heard since you lose so much salt on keto that your uric acid levels go up and cause uric acid stones. But consuming a lot of salt also makes my blood pressure go up (I’ve measured it). Also eating a lot of salt makes you lose more calcium and that can lead to calcium stones and I’m not sure what type of stones I get.
Dr. Anthony Chaffey is an interesting character. I’ve seen a few of his presentations that basically say “plants are trying to kill you”. Interesting perspectives. You might enjoy looking him up.
Another one I like is Dr. Ken Berry. He started out keto and reduced the veg to the point where he’s carnivore. He has some interesting videos about how the physiology changes when veg is not present, stuff like not needing all of the vit C and not getting scurvy, stuff like that. He’s got a tone of YouTubes out there.
Anyway, just sharing. Good luck!
Makes me think of the Inuit eating mostly just meat but lots of fat and organs etc. They do occasionally eat some berries and stuff too…
Rhubarb is another. It has nearly as much oxalate as spinach. Oxalic acid was first discovered 200 years ago in England, as the result of an investigation into a rash of deaths in rhubarb season. Kidney stones made of oxalates can be particularly painful, but at least the oxalic acid is bound and isn’t poisoning you,
Our picture of mTOR is rather different now, from what it was when Dr. Rosedale made his famous talk at that LCDU conference. For one thing, we now recognise that people’s nitrogen needs vary a lot, and 0.6 g/kg is not enough for many people. We also have a much better picture of the balance between mTOR and autophagy, and how both are actually necessary for longevity. Old proteins need to be cleared away, and new proteins need to be built, if we are going to last a long time.
As far as the “good things” in fruits and vegetables are concerned, I think a little investigation will show you that there isn’t a single vitamin they provide that meat doesn’t also provide, plus a few that we need that are found only in meat. In a number of cases, moreover, the form of the vitamin found in meat is more bio-available than the plant form.
Start by getting enough salt. The government recommendation is far too low to be healthy for anyone. I find it’s easy to tell when I’m in the right range, too: too little salt, and I get headaches and constipation; whereas too much gives me diarrhoea. I find that, for the most part, keeping salt in the right range helps with the other electrolytes.
Interestingly, however, I find that the less vegetables I eat, the less added salt I require. It soon starts to taste bad, a sure sign I’ve had more than enough.
I also find that drinking too much liquid is even worse for me than not drinking enough. I like Dr. Noakes’s advice to “drink to thirst.” That seems to work better than having a target of drinking gallons a day.
Hey. The lemon juice is great. I drink a lemonade in the morning I make from a blended whole lemon, and add water and stevia to taste. The potassium citrate is also a good idea. A few yrs ago I had a pretty strong round of antibiotics so I recently ordered some Oxalobacter formigenes as an insurance. This probiotic eats oxalates in your gut before you absorb them, and I eat a fair amount of almonds and other sources of oxalates. To my knowledge I have never gotten a stone, and want to keep it that way. Here is a link to the most economical source I could find: https://www.ebay.com/itm/155624183395