Cold toes, stop the fast?

#1

It seems to me I recall Dr Fung making mention that cold toes or extremities indicated a decrease in basal metabolic rate.
I am sitting here and my toes are chilly (but often are), hands are warm, no need for a sweater or feeling like I can’t get warm either.
I’m nearing the (could be) end of a 72 hour fast, but was considering moving past that…
Please, anyone got some science to support either the stop or continuance of my fast?

(Ethan) #2

It makes sense that the body could reduce energy expenditures by not heating as much. However, Dr. Solomon the view that it is because of increased blood flow in using your body fat that is constricting the flow to extremities:

http://www.drsarasolomon.com/if-faqs/

I can’t find science though on it.

(Siobhan) #3

Unsure of the answer, but I have heard salt can help with this too

#4

Thanks, I actually feel warmer now, I think it’s the humidity, and low 70s, plus rain/clouds that makes me feel cooler sometimes. I’ve always “run cold”.
I have warmer socks on and am rushing about getting ready for guests. I think I’ll keep fasting and see where it takes me. I like the explanation regarding blood flow/fat “burning” etc. Science would be better, but for today, I’ll go with that! :wink: Thank you

(Doug) #5

We’re all different but I’ve read that for most people, their metabolism increases during the 2nd and 3rd day of a fast, like 3% to 11%. If a metabolic slowdown occurs, it’s usually after that.

On my first 5 day fast, my feet got a little colder on day 3; not uncomfortable, just recognizable. Day 4 was back to normal.

(Todd Allen) #6

I got an infrared ear/forehead thermometer that makes monitoring my temperature super quick and easy. I use mine in my armpits which I find faster/easier than my ears and more consistent than my forehead. During rapid weight loss phases of fasting or highly restricted eating I find it helpful to track my body temperature closely and I think it is a fair measure of change in metabolism.

I don’t have concrete rules, but when my body temp is normal (for me above 97.6F) I feel pretty confident fasting or severely restricting calories and when my temp drops lower I begin to eat more until it’s back in my comfort zone. I test several times daily and also track blood glucose and breath ketones. I also monitor physical performance via weight lifting or cycling, etc. and if my peformance is off for 2 or 3 days in a row that also prompts me to eat more.

I’m 3 weeks into a rapid weight loss phase and it is going pretty good so far. I started with a dexa scan and plan to get another when I’ve dropped 20 lbs which looks like it will take roughly 3 more weeks and I’ll find out then how well I’ve done in shedding fat while hopefully increasing or at least retaining muscle.

(Sophie) #7

You may want to check your Thyroid and Iodine levels.

#8

This sounds hopeful, and I have forged onward, at least through day four tomorrow. I’ll see how I feel overall. Thanks for sharing your insight.

#9

Now, you are really being super careful/conscientious with all of your monitoring. I have a decent temporal thermometer, and I could do some checking with that.
Otherwise just “feeling” my body’s reaction to the fast as the hours pass is what I pay attention to as a barometer of sorts. I try to be in tune, but don’t want to be anxious either.
Unfortunately, a dexa scan is out of the question as I have no insurance and don’t feel it that important to spend my very hard earned money on…otherwise, it would be amazing to have this done!

#10

Thyroid and iodine levels…I will remain in denial for now, until I’m ready to dish out the money for some blood work. But this is a very good idea. I will get some blood work done eventually, but I’m just riding this path on what “feels right” and taking care not to do anything too “drastic”.

I’m so grateful for all of the information that has been put forth on the web as well as books and journals. It is a treasure and very powerful!
Thanks :slight_smile:

(Todd Allen) #11

I have Raynaud’s syndrome. When I went by feel the flaring of my Raynaud’s with fasting would get me anxious and I would abort my fasts. In part it is easier now because my Raynaud’s is less pronounced in summer, though it still is enough of an issue to often make getting a drop of blood for the blood tests challenging. I find taking my body temperature really easy and I find it reduces my guess work regarding what is going on with my body.

I’ve got a place a couple miles from my house that does body composition dexa scans for $75. That’s fairly inexpensive compared to most medical costs which is good because as I understand it doctors are reluctant to prescribe body composition scans and insurance companies are reluctant to pay for them - bone density scanning is more common in medical practice. I don’t bother trying to get them approved and pay out of pocket. If I get 4 in a year that’s about the price of a typical visit to the vet for my dog.

(Sophie) #12

Iodine is not expensive and you can do a patch test on your arm to see how quickly it is absorbed, or not. Thyroid, of course, is another matter.

#13

I haven’t heard of this “patch test”, it sounds intriguing, are there some more specifics? It sounds like a simple and, as you say, affordable test that I could try for some kind of indicator.
Thank you for this!

#14

I can see why you use the thermometer, and those cold fingers sure can make the drop of blood tough to get. If my hands are cold I will rub them briskly together for a god 5-10 seconds trying to bring that blood more readily into those capillaries. It usually works quite nicely. But I’m not sure with Raynaud’s.

A dexa scan for $75., maybe I need to do some searching! That would be well worth the money. Of course I may have to drive 3-4 hours to find such a place, but I have a car that is great on gas :wink: This gives me hope, because I am very curious and would love to know more about the visceral fat distribution in my body. I’m quite certain that the years of extreme carb intake have loaded up those fat stores. Plus, it would be interesting to get a look sooner, so that I have a better comparison for say, in six months or so.

(Sophie) #15

Here’s a short video, and a couple of articles but there’s lots of info out there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7Z3FMA2gmA

http://www.laurapower.com/page26.html

http://jeffreydachmd.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/The-Guide-to-Supplementing-with-Iodine-Stephanie-Burst-ND.pdf

(Sonia A.) #16

I found something interesting on this :

Fasting and cold fingers

"Q: Sometimes when I fast my finger tips get cold, why is that?

Fasting increases the blood flow to you body fat (the process is called adipose tissue blood flow). So when you are fasting more blood is travelling to your body fat, presumably to help move it to your muscles where it can be burned as a fuel. Do to this increased travel to your body fat, micro-vasodilation occurs in your fingertips and sometimes toes to compensate. So in some cases it’s a ‘necessary evil’ in the fat loss process."

It’s an extract from this article :
http://www.leangains.com/2010/09/eat-stop-eat-expanded-edition-review.html

As for science, I’ve found this :

What I found interesting in this study is : “During fasting, ATBF in the abdominal region increased by 45%”. ATBF is adipose tissue blood flow.

So it seems that having cold hands and feet during fasting is a good thing. It means that you’re burning visceral fat.

(Todd Allen) #17

I go to dexafit for the scans.

Maybe there is one near you. However, I have the impression from the one I visit that it is independently owned and operated and the pricing likely varies location to location.

The imaging I’ve received has a separate image for bone density but a composite image showing fat and muscle together with a color coding from yellow (fat) to red (muscle) that fails to show any detail of visceral fat. There is also a table of masses for each of bone, muscle and fat for each limb and the trunk as well as a separation of visceral and subcutaneous fat masses of the trunk. So for example I’m reported to have 1.38 lbs of visceral fat but I don’t know how much of that is around the liver, heart or elsewhere.

#18

Thank you for these research tidbits, they give me the same thought. fasting and feeling cool/colder, it’s a good thing! However, I only feel slightly cool today, not cold at all. It’s all that visceral fat around my liver and such that I want to be rid of! ( I’ve had no formal test, but surmise this fatty liver/pancreas to be true from the signs and symptoms of IR, BG readings and etc).

Breaking my fast tomorrow, I forgot about the 2nd Sunday of the month breakfast gathering! :wink: but I’m OK with bacon and eggs, and butter of course! I’ll be on to another fast next week sometime, but after I rev-up with keto goodness.

#19

This is great, I love links! I had a very long and difficult day, traumatic in the real sense of the word. I will surely peruse these tomorrow when I have my head and heart back together. This isn’t the best night for focused study.

Thank you so much

#20

Wow, this is really informative, and I wonder why you cannot get the details regarding the visceral fat. I suspect it’s dependent on the test itself? Perhaps at that price they don’t do all of the calculations?

I will look for a dexafit near me, and if there is not one, I will continue my hunt. I’d really like to have one, but it’s sort of disappointing to know you can’t get the info regarding liver/pancreas, etc.

Thanks again